Simply put, where is the money?

[empenage]

Shutout390,



What do YOU want to do??

 

[tathepilot]

money ?

money is the root of all evil.

dollar signs come last....
than the rest will fall into place.

 

[rattler]

There is no money in the airline industry for anyone who is not already at a major airline. The "major airline jobs" as we have known them are going away. We are destroying our own industry. 10 years ago major airline pilot groups failed to scope or include RJ's into mainline fleets, and the rest is history. Now "regonal"/national airlines are taking orders of 70 and 90 seat aircraft called 'regional jets". Some pilots groups are so nieve they have agreed to fly them for the same price as a 50 seat jet. Some of these 50 seat rates are as low as $51/ hr. Or about $46,000 anually (for PIC's). And far below poverty levels for FOs. These same airlines have orders for hundreds more of these jets at blowout labor prices, because as pilots we believe these positions will give us the experience we need to advance to the major airline position. The very jobs we are eroding. If you don't believe me, look at the number of small jet operators with pilots on furlough and compare it to the number of majors with pilots on furlough. Also look back 6-7 years. At my particular carrier our major counterpart had 6000+ pilots. The regional subsidiary had only 650. Today the regional has plans to hire to 3000 pilots by year end. With the "parent company" not replacing retiring pilots and shrinking to only 3500 pilots. It is truly sad.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

I had an easy, analyst/management gig, mid-50s, right out of college, for 3 years. It sucked gigantic donkey ballz.


Now, I have a 12K a year CFI gig, and it too, is starting to suck gigantic donkey ballz.


Moral of the story, listen to your parents, become a doctor or a lawyer and buy a freagin' Bonanza.


I certainly wish I had.

 

[grinder]

To put it in perspective...

In 4 months at my new furlough career, I will make more than my entire 2 yr. airline career at a regional and a major(DAL). 1.5 yrs. experience at new career, 15 flying. Military pay is still better including the bonus, if that is still around, and certainly more stable. Airlines are definitely not the place to grow wealthy. Military is a great place to start. Don't forget to always do your best; everything you do may matter to someone in the future.

Greatest Lesson learned: Cubicles Suck!!!!!
Grinder

 

[surfnole]

I can't speak too much for the airline industry, but I do know a few pilots who are doing quite well, and they don't all work for majors. On the other hand, if you are an employee of a major corporation (not mid to upper level mgmt), you will never see more than 80K to 90K a year.

As far as all those high priced MBAs, thats only from a top 10 school, and you will be working all the time to make the big bucks. Personally, I think making 70-80K a year at a regional with 15 days off sounds pretty good. Sitting behind a computer terminal 8 hours a day wondering when an Indian is going to take your job is no fun either.

If you have a givt for sales, thats where the money is at. Nobody will fire you as long as you close the deals. My best friend is a State Farm agent, and he says its a license to print money. My brother in law is an insurance agent, and I swear he never works.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Swass-

Kansas...how did I guess...

lucky you! I bet 3-400K buys a farkin mansion in Kansas!!

just stay out of the double wides man. on of them there ternaders might come and blow it away!

 

[banned username 2]

just stay out of the double wides man. on of them there ternaders might come and blow it away!

"Ternaders"

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

 

[Goose17]

Mr. Shoutout390 has asked a serious question as an inspiring aviator and this thread has turned into a total debacle. This is nothing more than, my job is/was better than yours and my location is/was better than yours.

What we have here is a failure to communicate!

18 years old, recently graduated from high school (congrats by the way) and ready to dig in... Shoutout390, ignore the ramblings. Flying was, is, and will always be a great way to make a living. If that is truely what you inspire to do, then go freak'n do it.

I did and I love it. I am not an office 9-5 type guy.

Good luck to you.

Goose17

 

[Snakum]

Where did this idea that 100K a year is not good money come from.

I gotta wonder about that, too. I have an IE degree and worked in Mfg/QA engineering and management for a few years before going into IT (self-taught). My Engineering stints included one gig as a corporate QA Manager with three facilties. In all that time, the best I did was $60K per year (age was very early 30s) and this was about the average outside of Fortune 500 for my age and experience level. I bought houses (2x), raised a family, bought a new car for myself and my wife every couple years, bought a motoX race team, and took vacations in the islands (Hey mon! ). That $60K was certainly enough to live well on if you weren't an absolute moron with money. I even looked into buying a C172 when I started flying in 1995. Sixty grand and whatever the wifey brought in was definitely a decent life.

I broke into the IT industry in 1997, and I took a 50% paycut to move into it. I moved back up to the 50s pretty quickly, and many old-timers were pulling down close to $100K back then, but that was the top. The VERY top might have made over $100K but I didn't know anyone like that.

Well guess what? In 2004, many of those guys who were making close to $100K in IT have been VERY happy to take a $10/hr desktop support job now that their unemployment has run out. And many more are now working at Home Depot or even Walmart. Of course, at Home Depot they are competing against all the mid-level managers and engineers cast off from the manufacturing industries now that all those jobs are outsourced. I myself have taken a 50% paycut just to keep the job I have and I was happy to do it. There were no alternatives. (Besides, I helped build the company I work for, I love the people I work for and with like family, and I believe we will eventually accomplish great things. )

You guys wanna laugh off $100K per year as beneath you, and say you can't make a living on it? Someone's living on a different planet than me and everyone else I know personally. It'd be fun to watch you defending that position in a conversation with the former US Air and Midway pilots I've met in the last two years who were working in retail.

Minh

 

[FN FAL]

Mr. Shoutout390 has asked a serious question as an inspiring aviator and this thread has turned into a total debacle. This is nothing more than, my job is/was better than yours and my location is/was better than yours.

What we have here is a failure to communicate!

Goose17

Hahaha Goose...you just realized that there is a large segment of the "Pilot Community" that does not have their Mutha Phukka set to "recieve"!

 

[Swass]

Swass-

Kansas...how did I guess...

lucky you! I bet 3-400K buys a farkin mansion in Kansas!!

just stay out of the double wides man. on of them there ternaders might come and blow it away!

You really are an asshole, but you can come work for me when your gig runs out or you spout your big mouth off to your boss and get canned. I can afford you, many times over. Even in Kansas money. Then you can really spread out your 100k salary.

You still haven't told me where you can make 150 to 200k. Don't tell me real estate either. Better hold on to your flying gig with both hands.

 

[Vector4fun]

My thoughts:

The Airline Industry in general is in for years of unrest yet. There's too much debt, too little margin, too much competition to raise prices, and the Hub and Spoke model is eventually going to implode, OR be a serious drag on the industry for years. I say that because no matter what the "experts" claim, there is NO magic software or hardware that is going to let 80 airplanes land and takeoff from a single runway in an hour. Not unless Boeing invents a VTOL airliner. And even if you could land/depart 80 per hour per runway, there aren't taxiways and gates to handle them. I say this after having gone back to work yesterday evening and finding 2 hr delays and/or ground stops to half the major airports east of the Mississippi. JFK, LGA, EWR, TEB, BWI, IAD, ATL, PHL, ORD, plus IAH here in Texas are just the ones I remember from yesterday. Customers just love arriving 2 hrs early for security lines, and then sitting an additional 2 hrs past departure time for WX and congestion delays. It's cheaper, easier, and more convenient nowadays to drive 6 hours. That's a fact.


From an ATC standpoint, RJs are going to further choke the major airports. Instead of one 757, the airlines are buying three RJs. Unless those RJs are moved from the Hubs and placed on more point-to-point routes between minor or mid-size cities, the larger airports are just going to become a huge traffic jam. I believe the RJs CAN be used effectively; but they're going to have to fly LNK direct OKC for example, not LNK-STL-OKC. Or LNK-ORD-OKC. What I don't believe is that the bean-counters will ever admit that Hubs are a bad idea operationally. They look great on paper, but suck real-world. Did anyone notice that ORD's traffic actually went UP after AAL and UAL agreed to reduce some flights?????
$100k per year a good salary? Yes, if you don't live on the coasts, or another higher cost area. And if you aren't divorced and paying a quarter of it to your ex, and if your current spouse works, or will drive a 5 yr old car and shop with coupons, and if you have good health insurance and no serious medical issues, etc. etc. You can be very well off on that single in Texas. You can be shopping for Palm Harbor Homes if you're divorced in California.

 

[shutout390]

Reading all these posts makes me feel kinda shaky about pursuing a career in aviation. Everyone always says to do what makes you happy, then it wont seem like work. Alot of people here seem regretful and/or dissapointed with their careers, maybe you can equate it to my high school terms...Like you think a girl is smokin' until you "land on her runway", then she doesnt seem so hot anymore? Is it kinda like that?

So when i relfect, i guess all i really want to do is fly....soon enough the money will come. Ill go to college and get my degree, if flying doesnt look like itll work then atleast i have my degree and i dont have to sit around waitin for openings with no other skills that flying.

Thanks for all the help everyone, sorry about the disputes it brought up.

 

[Indigo]

Like you think a girl is smokin' until you "land on her runway", then she doesnt seem so hot anymore? Is it kinda like that?

Yes.

No matter how you feel about flying, when you do it for a living it becomes a job, sometimes a cool job, but a job nevertheless. You're young so I'm sure it's hard for you to relate to this.

That said, flying can be an interesting and rewarding career. My advice would be to follow your own path and be patient (hard for a young person, I know). As far as money goes, there are no guarantees with any career and there's no way to predict the future, so do what you want to do. Hopefully the money will follow. If not, at least you're doing something that is personally satisfying.

Also, the title of your thread made you sound like a greedy little.... I'm sure you're not, but there are many people out there who had their economic dreams crushed recently so that may be why you got so many negative responses.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

You really are an asshole, but you can come work for me when your gig runs out or you spout your big mouth off to your boss and get canned. I can afford you, many times over. Even in Kansas money. Then you can really spread out your 100k salary.

You still haven't told me where you can make 150 to 200k. Don't tell me real estate either. Better hold on to your flying gig with both hands.


I knew it, it is a trailer.

"I can afford you, many times over"....OK...you can AFFORD me? Swass, what the heck does THAT mean? You got a thing for dudes Swass? Im not your type...I have all my teeth and I can read and write...

Now go kick that bald, banjo playing kid off your porch - he is getting you all tensed up man..

Be Happy, its the weekend. Have a beer and relax.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Ill go to college and get my degree, if flying doesnt look like itll work then atleast i have my degree and i dont have to sit around waitin for openings with no other skills that flying.

Holy crap, this kid is a freakin' genius! Finally someone who has got it right.

Enter pilotyip, stage left...

 

[shutout390]

I did sound greedy, but I figured I would just put it out there so people didnt have to read my post trying to figure out what I really wanted (which at first was money). I have read these posts and I have aquired a greater respect for just doing what you want to do - something that wouldnt make work seem like work. I see that in flying; I dont think I could ever get bored of something like that. I could, however, get sick of lookin at the same 9-5 day behind a desk and on the phone talkin to aceholes about stock fluctuations or retail bids or whatnot.