Simply put, where is the money?

[Gulfstream 200]

I really would LOVE to know where these people who raise families and have a great lifestyle on 45-50K live...

PLEASE PLEASE define great lifestyle? Is that a double wide with a foundation?

jeeesus.

Starter homes in the major metro areas are now 300K and up. Please tell me how you can do this on 45K. I aint talking new construction bro, Im talking 1500 sq ft 1960-70's ranch house needing updates...

And no, you simply cant live in bumfuk Kansas and have a good stable corp flying job. does not exist....so please dont say move to Kansas.

Sure, you can live fine on 100K, but no way some cushy lifestyle......very much plain Jane middle class.

Wake up, much has changed over the last 10 years - and pilot salaries dont go as far as they used to.


And WHOA -- 42-55K for MBA newhires??!!!...where??? add a 1 to that figure and you are in the ballpark man....Mcdonalds managers make 40K fella.

 

[350DRIVER]

I disagree and no I was not referring to the "top" programs..

Compensation for people with MBA's can be lucrative. The median starting salary of 2001 graduates of the University of Southern California's Marshall School of Business was $85,000, according to the school's 2001 MBA employment report. Signing bonuses ranged from $4,000 in the software industry to $30,000 in finance areas such as investment research and sales and trading. If potential salary is an important part of your decision about where to apply, look deeper into a school's employment report to get an idea of the average offers for particular industries, Pihakis of Berkeley advised.

Keep in mind the above example was in 2001 dollars. I have had many friends who recently interned and have gotten hired by some of the larger corporations fresh out of college with MBA's and their starting salary was well above what you mentioned, and no they were not coming out of a "top ten" or even close program. You can access this information rather easily, just do a search..

3 5 0

 

[cale42]

Gulfstream I'll be happy to throw out one location because I lived there... Rockford, IL. Not the most scenic place in the world, but a great place to raise kids. By great lifestyle.. as kids we all had our own bedrooms, went to private school, took vacation every summer, had nice clothes and nice things, got cars when we turned 16 and were able to do basically whatever we wanted. I'm not saying it was extravagant.. but I felt it was hard to argue with the quality of life.

 

[JB74]

Just to kick in a little more info, my last year as an auditor ('01) the big 5 accounting firms (KPMG, E&Y, D&T, Andersen and Coopers) were paying their first and second year auditors right around $40k (these were CPA's).

After three years of doing that kind of work, I literally wanted to put my head through a wall. I would cuss out loud on my way to work. Drove me crazy.

Do what you love, the money will follow.

 

[Mr. Cole]

When I graduated undergrad in '96 and started with Lockheed as an engineer I started somewhere around $40,000 . When I left for business school after four years I was making about $60,000. Starting salaries today for engineers are probably closer to upper $50's depending on discipline, if not more. My internship between first and second year at Wharton was in investment banking. If I had taken a banking offer during the good times I would have started with an $80,000 base and bonuses on the order of $100,000 - $140,000. I too decided that working 100 weeks was not for me and I'm glad I did. Most of my friends were lucky to have jobs at the end of 2002 and 2003, and for many bonuses were non-existant, but they still worked the long hours. After graduating from UPenn, my starting base salary was about 15% higher than it would have been in banking, but the bonus was only about 10%. of the banking figures This was six years out of undergrad, with probably no more debt for my four degrees than someone who went to an aviation academy. Of course I had to pay for my PPL using my TA stipend and the IR out of my own pocket, so maybe it's all even in the end.

Dave

 

[flying_gringo]

Starter homes in the major metro areas are now 300K and up. Please tell me how you can do this on 45K. I aint talking new construction bro, Im talking 1500 sq ft 1960-70's ranch house needing updates...

And no, you simply cant live in bumfuk Kansas and have a good stable corp flying job. does not exist....so please dont say move to Kansas.

I'm in Phoenix - and no problem finding nice (less then 10 years old - even new construction) 4 bedroom homes for under $200K. Heck if its 180+ it had better have a pool or some great features. All these homes are new... now unless phoenix doesn't count as a major metropolitan area - I think your figures are off.

Same goes for Vegas, Dallas, and Houston... and I don't think its too hard to find a job in any of those.

I'll agree that home prices are outrageous in some other cities - but then why are you taking a job there?

jobs that pay $50K in LA exist because pilots are willing to live with mom and dad. Factor in quality of life, and disposable income for any job offer taking into account location and you won't go wrong.

fg

 

[cale42]

350 Driver.... USC's Marshall Business school was ranked #18 out of the roughly 150-200 MBA programs in the US by US News and World Reports last.. year, I would hardly consider the salaries out of there reflective of the average. Oh and also keep in mind that most good MBA programs require 5 years work experience before they will even look at your appliation. Meaning even if you are the exception AND you go to a top MBA school you will be 7 years out of college.. making approximately 95K a year and 80 grand in debt... that doesn't sound that different from aviation to me.


Gulfstream . Rockford also happens to be a 45 minute drive from ORD and the 3rd largest UPS hub.. I think you could live there and fly.

 

[Mr. Cole]

Cale,

I don't know if that's a completly fair comparison, as during those five years of work experience you're probably making a bit more than you would in your first five years of aviation, including instructing. And while the debt levels may be similar, the MBA creates opportunities that last a lifetime in a number of different fields. Are most CEOs of airlines pilots themselves?

Dave

 

[Swass]

I really would LOVE to know where these people who raise families and have a great lifestyle on 45-50K live...

PLEASE PLEASE define great lifestyle? Is that a double wide with a foundation?

jeeesus.

Starter homes in the major metro areas are now 300K and up. Please tell me how you can do this on 45K. I aint talking new construction bro, Im talking 1500 sq ft 1960-70's ranch house needing updates... Where?

And no, you simply cant live in bumfuk Kansas and have a good stable corp flying job. does not exist....so please dont say move to Kansas. Easy with the Kansas crap, I live here. And there are corp jobs, Koch industries is right here in ICT etc.

Sure, you can live fine on 100K, but no way some cushy lifestyle......very much plain Jane middle class.

Wake up, much has changed over the last 10 years - and pilot salaries dont go as far as they used to.


And WHOA -- 42-55K for MBA newhires??!!!...where??? add a 1 to that figure and you are in the ballpark man....Mcdonalds managers make 40K fella. I have several buddies that have had hard times finding jobs with an MBA, they started no where near 100+k. Where are you guys finding this info? It's not in my neck of the woods. New hire MBA's are a joke anyway, they have no real experience and only add book knowledge to most operations. Worthless in my book. [/QUOTE]

 

[banned username 2]

I'll be happy to throw out one location because I lived there... Rockford, IL. Not the most scenic place in the world, but a great place to raise kids. By great lifestyle.. as kids we all had our own bedrooms, went to private school, took vacation every summer, had nice clothes and nice things, got cars when we turned 16 and were able to do basically whatever we wanted. I'm not saying it was extravagant.. but I felt it was hard to argue with the quality of life.

Rockford, Ill. cost of living is about 65% of what a Chicago suburb is... My $380,000 house would go for about $245,000 in Rockford... That is a HUGE difference in mortgage payments...

 

[empenage]

Shutout390,



What do YOU want to do??

 

[tathepilot]

money ?

money is the root of all evil.

dollar signs come last....
than the rest will fall into place.

 

[rattler]

There is no money in the airline industry for anyone who is not already at a major airline. The "major airline jobs" as we have known them are going away. We are destroying our own industry. 10 years ago major airline pilot groups failed to scope or include RJ's into mainline fleets, and the rest is history. Now "regonal"/national airlines are taking orders of 70 and 90 seat aircraft called 'regional jets". Some pilots groups are so nieve they have agreed to fly them for the same price as a 50 seat jet. Some of these 50 seat rates are as low as $51/ hr. Or about $46,000 anually (for PIC's). And far below poverty levels for FOs. These same airlines have orders for hundreds more of these jets at blowout labor prices, because as pilots we believe these positions will give us the experience we need to advance to the major airline position. The very jobs we are eroding. If you don't believe me, look at the number of small jet operators with pilots on furlough and compare it to the number of majors with pilots on furlough. Also look back 6-7 years. At my particular carrier our major counterpart had 6000+ pilots. The regional subsidiary had only 650. Today the regional has plans to hire to 3000 pilots by year end. With the "parent company" not replacing retiring pilots and shrinking to only 3500 pilots. It is truly sad.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

I had an easy, analyst/management gig, mid-50s, right out of college, for 3 years. It sucked gigantic donkey ballz.


Now, I have a 12K a year CFI gig, and it too, is starting to suck gigantic donkey ballz.


Moral of the story, listen to your parents, become a doctor or a lawyer and buy a freagin' Bonanza.


I certainly wish I had.

 

[grinder]

To put it in perspective...

In 4 months at my new furlough career, I will make more than my entire 2 yr. airline career at a regional and a major(DAL). 1.5 yrs. experience at new career, 15 flying. Military pay is still better including the bonus, if that is still around, and certainly more stable. Airlines are definitely not the place to grow wealthy. Military is a great place to start. Don't forget to always do your best; everything you do may matter to someone in the future.

Greatest Lesson learned: Cubicles Suck!!!!!
Grinder

 

[surfnole]

I can't speak too much for the airline industry, but I do know a few pilots who are doing quite well, and they don't all work for majors. On the other hand, if you are an employee of a major corporation (not mid to upper level mgmt), you will never see more than 80K to 90K a year.

As far as all those high priced MBAs, thats only from a top 10 school, and you will be working all the time to make the big bucks. Personally, I think making 70-80K a year at a regional with 15 days off sounds pretty good. Sitting behind a computer terminal 8 hours a day wondering when an Indian is going to take your job is no fun either.

If you have a givt for sales, thats where the money is at. Nobody will fire you as long as you close the deals. My best friend is a State Farm agent, and he says its a license to print money. My brother in law is an insurance agent, and I swear he never works.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Swass-

Kansas...how did I guess...

lucky you! I bet 3-400K buys a farkin mansion in Kansas!!

just stay out of the double wides man. on of them there ternaders might come and blow it away!

 

[banned username 2]

just stay out of the double wides man. on of them there ternaders might come and blow it away!

"Ternaders"

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

 

[Goose17]

Mr. Shoutout390 has asked a serious question as an inspiring aviator and this thread has turned into a total debacle. This is nothing more than, my job is/was better than yours and my location is/was better than yours.

What we have here is a failure to communicate!

18 years old, recently graduated from high school (congrats by the way) and ready to dig in... Shoutout390, ignore the ramblings. Flying was, is, and will always be a great way to make a living. If that is truely what you inspire to do, then go freak'n do it.

I did and I love it. I am not an office 9-5 type guy.

Good luck to you.

Goose17

 

[Snakum]

Where did this idea that 100K a year is not good money come from.

I gotta wonder about that, too. I have an IE degree and worked in Mfg/QA engineering and management for a few years before going into IT (self-taught). My Engineering stints included one gig as a corporate QA Manager with three facilties. In all that time, the best I did was $60K per year (age was very early 30s) and this was about the average outside of Fortune 500 for my age and experience level. I bought houses (2x), raised a family, bought a new car for myself and my wife every couple years, bought a motoX race team, and took vacations in the islands (Hey mon! ). That $60K was certainly enough to live well on if you weren't an absolute moron with money. I even looked into buying a C172 when I started flying in 1995. Sixty grand and whatever the wifey brought in was definitely a decent life.

I broke into the IT industry in 1997, and I took a 50% paycut to move into it. I moved back up to the 50s pretty quickly, and many old-timers were pulling down close to $100K back then, but that was the top. The VERY top might have made over $100K but I didn't know anyone like that.

Well guess what? In 2004, many of those guys who were making close to $100K in IT have been VERY happy to take a $10/hr desktop support job now that their unemployment has run out. And many more are now working at Home Depot or even Walmart. Of course, at Home Depot they are competing against all the mid-level managers and engineers cast off from the manufacturing industries now that all those jobs are outsourced. I myself have taken a 50% paycut just to keep the job I have and I was happy to do it. There were no alternatives. (Besides, I helped build the company I work for, I love the people I work for and with like family, and I believe we will eventually accomplish great things. )

You guys wanna laugh off $100K per year as beneath you, and say you can't make a living on it? Someone's living on a different planet than me and everyone else I know personally. It'd be fun to watch you defending that position in a conversation with the former US Air and Midway pilots I've met in the last two years who were working in retail.

Minh