Simply put, where is the money?

[shutout390]

Hey guys, Sorry if this is a frequently asked question, I did a search but nothing really came up.

I just graduated high school and im now faced with a big question of what i want to do with my life. My dream always has and always will be to fly. I have also dreamed, like everyone, of making a good amount of money. I know the commercial airlines pay well, but it is very tought to make it there. So I ask, where is the money? If its in commericial airlines, how do i get there the best? College (what major), ROTC, one of those schools that advertise they train 150% of todays commericial pilots?

So, i must also ask if the airline industry is pulling out of its post 9-11 slump...are they hiring again? Will they be in 4 years? How long am i looking at until im raking in the dough, in other words, how much time do i have to put in before im actually airline material?

This is a big decision, so i appreciate all the help i can get.

Thank you.

 

[labbats]

My best suggestion would be the military if you can handle the commitment of 10 years and pass the medical.

 

[shutout390]

Yes, I have seriously thought of it. If i can get an NROTC scholarship, serve my 8 years, would i be sitting in a good spot to get an airline job once im done?

How much less would i make if i stayed in the military and put in 20, so i could get the pension? (would the airlines look at a 45 year old guy by then?)

Again thanks alot.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

OK. Flying is a decent career (right now for me at least)

But my honest suggestion to ANY recent high school grad who is pretty sharp.....

go into another field, make real money, and fly for fun.

If making good money is a goal, go elsewhere.

If making 100K or so meets that goal, you may enjoy an aviation career...

might sound like big bucks to a 17 year old, but it certainly is not "raking in the dough".

I hate to sound like a pessimist, but its an honest opinion.

 

[shutout390]

100K is right up my ally. Basically what i meant by "raking in the dough" is not being middle-low class. I know how much my dad makes, its around 100 and we do very well. I couldnt be happier with that kind of money, Im not looking to get rich, just not poor.

My problem remains getting to the airlines. Could i make good money elsewhere, say for instance corporate jets? Is that a simular career path?

Thanks alot.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I would say the AVERAGE corp pilot makes 85-130K on decent equipment. Most I know around my age (not doing EKGs officially yet) make about 100K. 150K is very good money.

The only prob is that big operators are in major metro areas where that "rakin in the dough" 100K is not going to go far. You will be very much middle class - certainly NOT upper middle class. This aint Kansas Dorothy!

Now, Im not knocking 100K flying a bizjet (or am I..) ...

- just give serious thought and research to this business as there are many pilots past mid career (45ish) who make very little money flying thier arses off for a dirtbag operator or a dirtbag airline....and its not thier fault, its a very unforgiving business that a pilot has NO control over - you are along for the ride...

I like my job very much but still wouldn't steer my kid(s) or friends down this path, and I wouldnt do it again if I could go back...

No way.

 

[FN FAL]

100K is right up my ally. Basically what i meant by "raking in the dough" is not being middle-low class. I know how much my dad makes, its around 100 and we do very well. I couldnt be happier with that kind of money, Im not looking to get rich, just not poor.

My problem remains getting to the airlines. Could i make good money elsewhere, say for instance corporate jets? Is that a simular career path?

Thanks alot.

I'd say go do what your dad does for a living if you don't want to live on food stamps. You won't see a hundred grand a year, not untill you put ten years at the grindstone and invest a hundred grand into it.

 

[Goose17]

enough doom and gloom

I flew for the Air Force for 9 years (my commitment was 1 year of pilot training and 8 years after). I now fly for FedEx (2-1/2 years).

Here is my take on it...

The industry is in a state of total turmoil right now. There has been serious problems in the past, and there will be problems in the future. As a guy graduating high school, you need not worry about this now. If you want to fly, great - it CAN be a great job... Now how to get there...

The military is not for everyone. You now must sign up for 11 years (I hope you like it). You can be gone from home alot - not a big deal now, but wait until you are married with kids. You can sleep in tents, wear chem gear, get shot at, bla bla bla. I enjoyed flying in the active duty, but like I said, it is not for everyone. A good side of it is; you have a very stable job that pays a good salary. Nothing to get rich on, but you won't be wondering how to pay the electric bill.

The civilian route can be a tough one, but might be a quicker route to a major airline. I know lots of guys that went this way and ended up getting on with a major before the guy that was stuck in the military for 9 (now 11) years. The civilian route results in more flying and more hours, but one BIG drawback is EXTREMELY LOW PAY. You better be single or have a spouse with a good income, because you will not be able to support a family when starting out in the civilian route. Also, don't get caught up in getting/buying hours and forget to finish your 4-year degree (crucial mistake).

I think a smart combination is going guard/reserves. Had I known this hidden gem back when I was your age, there is no question which way I would have gone. You can have good pay in the military and also fly civilian style on the side. Once you have competitive hours, you are not locked in by a huge active duty commitment and you are free to apply to major airlines. Most of the guys in this category that I fly with are senior to me and younger if that gives you any idea of how nice it can be.

Obviously it is a big decision and it is all up to you. If you want to see the world and not have to worry about finding a job in the next 11 years (after college) hit active duty, I did and got everything I wanted out of it. If you want to fly for a major airline and that is your sole purpose in life, skip active duty and go either pure civilian or if $ is a big factor, go guard/reserves.

Hope this adds a little info for your thoughts.

Goose17

 

[350DRIVER]

100K is right up my ally. Basically what i meant by "raking in the dough" is not being middle-low class. I know how much my dad makes, its around 100 and we do very well.

Right up your ally is years and years away if you choose to pursue a career in this field. I second the above comments by Mr. Gulfstream, he is being nothing more than honest with you and he is right on the money. This industry is dying and it is not what it once was, it will take you many years to hit the 100K mark if you decide to go this route. If it were me I would choose a better career field, get a good job, and fly for fun whenever you so choose. If I could re-write history and go back in time, I surely would not be where I am at present day and would have finished my pre-med degree without a second thought and would have went right into medical school. This profession is not all the fun and games that many make it out to be. Some may come across with a "positive" attitude but reality is reality, bottom line. Be smart and consult people who have been through the trenches and know what they are talking about not just those who will sell this off better than a used car salesman due to where they are at present day. If you decide then money is not an issue then by all means pursue a career in this field. I recently met a 1900 captain with over a 1000 hours of turbine pic time who had to take a job at another regional flying a regional jet back as a first officer, something is wrong with this picture if you ask me. . . . You would think that after flying as a captain one could make a much better jump to a bigger carrier along the lines of ATA, Airtran, SWA, AWA, JetBlue, etc, etc, not back to another regional just to sit three to five years for a shot at the upgrade.

Be smart and think this over and over again before jumping into this.

3 5 0

 

[FN FAL]

I flew for the Air Force for 9 years (my commitment was 1 year of pilot training and 8 years after). I now fly for FedEx (2-1/2 years).

With all due respect to you goose, I wasn't painting doom and gloom and the kid was pretty much asking the 100,000 dollar question.

I still stand by the statement 10 years and at least 100,000 grand invested.

Figure 4 years of college, I didn't pay for my associate degree directly...GI bill did, but I still had to work two part time jobs to have a life while doing so. Cost$$$?

I did pay, 20,000 bucks plus food, (not rent or utilities) for my ratings, Pvt to MEI.

I did have to work for several summers flying jumpers for 5 bucks a load SKYDIVING CREDITS, while working a full time day job as mechanical assembler. Try paying your car payment on skydiving credits.

Did the buy a twin with two time building friends who turn out to be irressponsibly criminally negligent...try to put a cost on that one...I'll guess at least 3 or 4 years of payments, plus some cash out of savings, plus I did get my half of the civil court judgement reduced from 7,500 to 5,000 bucks.

Not all is bad...the 270 multi I got netted me a 135 position that paid 38,000 a year flying piston twins, for several years. Then there was the east german mesaba RJ 85 "teach yourself how to be an airline pilot" debacle. That set me back about 5,000 bucks. Let's see, now I'm making 38,000 a year again.

Working on the Bachelors degree right now...should cost me about two years of time away from family, and wife, but I'm doing the best I can with it. That will be another 25,000 off the top.

So easily figure I got a decade into this thing and 100,000 grand...if not in outright cash, in sweat equity.

And to answer the kids question, you haven't hit the hundred grand a year mark, not in almost a decade in the service, nor with 2.5 at fedex...not unless i'm missing something about the payscale in military.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

because it was an easy thing to do.

If you are a sharp and focused high school grad, persue a career where you can make real money. Not 100-150K a year.

The people who created the lie that "money does not make you happy" must have been 20 year old pilots living in moms basement.

Now, flying is fun - and many pilots get A LOT of time off (that is nice) - but choose a career path where you have some control over your destiny. No pilot does.

You max out our potential early then simply depend on luck or fate of the industry that you will have a good paying seat for many years. Thats NO CONTROL.

How many unemployed lawyers you know? doctors?

Funny Im truly not a pessimist! (hard to believe) and I do very much like my job - just give it a LOT of thought as a career these days. A LOT of thought.

 

[shutout390]

Nrotc

What if I can get the NROTC scholarship, they will pay for tuition, room and board....that way i can use the extra money to take flying lessons. Once i graduated, I would serve 8 years. So, how long are people coming out of military waiting until they can land airline slots?

Thank you, again.

 

[nosehair]

Money??

There's money here??...aahhh, those guys are just yankin' yer chain. There's no money here. We do it for love. Don't we? That's what I'm told.

 

[Goose17]

shutout390,

As you can see from the above posts, this is a tough industry right now. The airline industry is cyclical, always has been and always will. We have been in a bad slump, but we are past the lowest point in my opinion. There were and are a lot of pilots on furlough and many of them have needed to look elsewhere for $. Many went back on active duty. Others got different, less paying flying jobs. There are former and future pilots in every other job imaginable out there right now. The point is the industry was decimated recently. Will it always be this bad - no! There are a lot of guys that have been 'burned lately' and I don't blame them for having a sour attitude about the industry - I would too.

If you want to fly, great. Like I said in my previous post, first and foremost, get your degree. If you don't your chances at a major are slim to none. If you postpone your college, it will be tougher to complete with more commitments later in life. You must also decide which avenue to take (military, guard/reserve, pure civilian). Once you choose, stay the course and you will reach your goal. In 10-years time, the industry will recover and probably have another bump or two - nature of the beast. As for the money aspect, you will probably not reach your goal until you are with a major. Money at the majors can be a good thing, but as someone will be quick to point out, many majors have taken concessionary cuts. There are still plently of major airline pilots making darn good money.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to paint a rosey picture. It takes lots of work, study, determination, and darn good luck to work your way to your goal. If you choose to do it, don't do it half-a$$ed. Go full speed ahead and you will reach your goal.

Good luck. It is a great way to earn a living.

Goose17

 

[KigAir]

The people who created the lie that "money does not make you happy" must have been 20 year old pilots living in moms basement.

Or the deadheads in life who wasted their life away and now need to some how justify their existence.

 

[TRLpilot]

step 1 should be to get your degree. get it in something other than aviation and in something useful that can make a liveable wage, not liberal arts or basket weaving. many on here debate the issue of degrees making better pilots but the bottom line is that most every human resources department wants it on your resume.

while getting your degree work on your licenses and ratings. maybe in a couple of years you can flight instruct while finishing your degree. by that time you should have a better understanding of the industry and if we are all lucky the industry will be gearing up again. if you are able to get in an rotc or reserve program go for it, let uncle sam help you with your goal.

 

[cale42]

I've been reading this board for a while now.. and the same question strikes me again and again. Where did this idea that 100K a year is not good money come from. 100K a year is a LOT of money. Easily enough to raise a money and have a great lifestyle. Personally I was raised in a family that netted maybe 45-50K a year and we had a great life and both me and my sister could go to college. Second of all, I don't know where so many of you get off thinking there is great money elsewhere. You go into the corporate world these days, you start at 30-50K.. at some of the better companies after 8 or 10 years out of college. you MIGHT be making 100K. You will top out between 150-175.. that is what upper management makes at the most profitable firms. Funny how that sounds like just about the same as you get pursuing aviation as a career.


I've seen a lot of ppl with a lot of approaches to getting into aviation, but my $.02 on the best route is this. Go to a good school with a good aviation program(not an aviation school). Get a degree in business or engineering or english or whatever and do all of your ratings. When you graduate get a job near home as a CFI, suck it up and live with your parents for a year or two and get your hours. You'll find all of a sudden your 24, have 1500 and 100 multi can look for an airline job and can sleep at night knowing you have a degree to use if you ever get furloughed.

Make no mistake, if you love aviation you will love working in it.. sitting in a cubicle 10 hours a day so you can fly your little plane on the weekend will simply never satisfy the itch...

Good luck!!

 

[Swass]

I also want to know what Gulfstream thinks will bring home the big coin? By big money are you talking 300K or more? Just trying to hear what ideas you have. Most lawyers won't see this kind of cash, maybe mid 200's. I know a LOT of lawyers, hell, I employ one (he doesn't make that kind of money).

Now, Dr's on the other hand, they can make some bucks. Even family practice Dr's are making outrageous money because they own their own labs and see as many patients as they can herd through (you wonder why health ins costs so much).

My advice to this kid is to go to college, fly on the side and get a few years of life experience under your belt. Who knows, he might totally change his mind while at school. Either way he'll be the better for it.

.02

 

[350DRIVER]

Second of all, I don't know where so many of you get off thinking there is great money elsewhere. You go into the corporate world these days, you start at 30-50K.. at some of the better companies after 8 or 10 years out of college. you MIGHT be making 100K.

You are mistaken and incorrect, no other way to put it. Take a look at what recent grads with MBA's are getting fresh out of college. I can assure you that it is a he!! of a lot more than $30,000 to $50,000. I am unsure how you are coming up with this information?





It is easy to make assumptions but I think if you do a search that your findings may surprise you....



3 5 0

 

[cale42]

Those stats are wrong.... I lived it and I worked... I feel that qualifies me. If you want a little background to prove it.. I went to a Big Ten school and got a degree in mechanical engineering. I took a job with a large consulting firm that is a spin off of a Big Five accounting firm. New hires started(and keep in mind that was in 2001) between 42K and 53K depending on level experience(a number of ppl in my start class had MBA's and fell into that range. When I left they were giving new hires 32 - 40K. Almost all of my friends have similar backgrounds.. degrees in business and engineering from a school that was top 10 in both. The only one that even comes close to making 100K a year is an investment banker.. I will grant you that career path is an exception and can lead to million a year salaries but you work 100 hours a week under extreme pressure.

I know what numbers you are referring to.. they are for graduates of top 10 MBA programs, and your right the average out of there is roughly 105K a year. Keep in mind that these schools accept the top one half of one percent of all college graduates, and the programs cost upwards of 80K for 2 years. These numbers do not reflect most.. the AVERAGE starting salary for someone with an MBA is in the range of 55-60K a year.

So please.. don't accuse me of making assumptions I feel this data is more accurate than any salary search you will find on the internet.