Simcom

[cosmotheassman]

Does anyone have any thoughts on using simcom for Hawker recurrent training? Likes or dislikes??

 

[pilot370]

Our company goes there for KA300 recurrent and me and another guy in our company hate going there. They are geared towards the owner/operator of aircraft, the manuals are hapazard at best, the checklist are incomplete just to name a few. Oh and I forgot, they're cheap too! I am afraid we will be going there for our Hawker recurrent also. We normally go to Simuflite in DFW. Not looking forward to it, but at least it's in Florida and you get free pizza on wed or is it tues? oh and don't forget that bright yellow t-shirt you get too!

 

[irapilot]

You get what you pay for



You get what you pay for - and SimCom is cheap, ergo you don't get much. It is a haven for cheapo operators who don’t want to spend much and pilots who don’t feel they “need” the training but have to get it for insurance reasons. Also they get a clientele of pilots who do not want to be looked at very hard and they get what they want – a slide through. Not that FSI and Simuflight don’t have their “slide through guys” but SimCom – pretty sad.

 

[cvoav8r]

Dtto. You get what you pay for. Just look where your Fortune 100/500 operators, fractionals and some small airlines send their people. That is where the standard is being set. How do you want to be viewed?

 

[421Driver]

One thing to add, DON'T go to Recurrent Training Center near CMI. It is far worse than Simcom. Same "slide-thru" and "insurance training."

 

[BigPappa]

Ok,ok! Just before you go on:

I just went through the Hawker 800 XP recurrent at Simcom and can tell you that the training was GREAT! Did my Intitial at flight safety and can tell you that the sim instructor we had was almost clueless when it came to prepping us. I really don't believe that for $30,000 at FSI we learned much better or more than at Simcom for half that! The only thing that was different was the fact that FSI had a Collins Proline 21 Sim Level D(which was broken most of time), and Simcom had a Honeywell Level C.

I would not say you could go wrong by going to Simcom.

 

[Headwind]

Been to all three several times and feel I got good training at each. I feel that Sim Com is as good as SF or FSI. Each time at Sim Com the instructors had experience in type. At FSI sometimes they did, sometimes not. FSI cost more, lots more. Sometimes you don't have a choice, but for a Citation w/o EFIS Sim Com would be my choice.

HEADWIND

 

[Throttlebender]

I've been to simcom twice for the navajo, and I enjoyed it. I think that it boils down to the instructors you get and what you want out of it. If you go in and want to learn, ask questions, and challenge yourself then you'll be fine. They may or may not be too laid back in their approach to teaching( I don't have a frame of reference with the other schools) but I felt that I got what I put into it.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

I thought the SimCom Navajo Initial was a good course. But, it was my first formal school. I can give ya a FSI/SimCom comparison after the end of the month when I finish recurrent at Lakeland.

 

[irapilot]

Ok - except for headwind look at the total times of the positive responses. Not trying to bash you guys – just pointing out that if you stick around in this career for a while you will see things from a different perspective. I have been to all three and have had good and bad experiences at all, the most consistent poor quality training existed at SimCom. The depth is not there at SimCom and the FTDs are not anything but procedure trainers.

To be fair, they are the best and only choice for some low end, out of production aircraft and some single turbo-props. They also have a few awesome instructors, no doubt. But as I said before you get what you pay for.

 

[falcon10]

Any type of training is what you make of it. I have used Sim Com, SimuFlite and Flight Safety. It seems that it all depends on the instructor you get or the person you might get paired up with. Whatever the case, if you aren't happy with the training, then stop and make a change with it. I have done it and it makes all the difference in the world. Alot of those sim instructors are trying to show you how much they know instead of teaching you what you need to know.

 

[Throttlebender]

Irapilot,

Man I gotta say that response was crap. I personally admitted to not having a point of comparison for the different schools. I simply pointed out that I got out of it what I put in. My total time doesn't have squat to do with my ability to determine whether I was trained thoroughly. Did I learn systems? Yes. Did I learn procedures? Yes. Do I feel safe and capable? Yes. I was able to figure that all out with just 2300 hrs. I'm curious...just how long does one need to be in the business to be respected? Is it also a common assumption that anyone with low time is a snot-nosed kid?
Well all of this came out a bit harsher that I intended but you get the idea. Ultimately I think it's a gamble most times. Falcon10 has the right idea. If it's working for you, great! If not, change it up.
Cheers

 

[cvoav8r]

Dearest Throttlebender,

My son, your immaturity of response confirms Irapilots observation. Believe me I am proud of you Jr., to be flying a Twin at 2300 hrs is a great accomplishment, and your successful completion of SIMCOM is an obvious feather in your cap. But when you grow hair on your chest, a second testicle drops into your underwear or you learn to fly faster than 270 knots shoot me an email, we will have a beer.

The Dude

 

[Flywrite]

Dearest Throttlebender,

My son, your immaturity of response confirms Irapilots observation. Believe me I am proud of you Jr., to be flying a Twin at 2300 hrs is a great accomplishment, and your successful completion of SIMCOM is an obvious feather in your cap. But when you grow hair on your chest, a second testicle drops into your underwear or you learn to fly faster than 270 knots shoot me an email, we will have a beer.

The Dude

How about 500 hour guys flying F-15s and C-17s? Do they get to drink beer with you or is there some hours+knots/attitude formula you use?

To paraphrase Yoda "Hours do not make one great"

 

[cosmotheassman]

and cvoav8r when you fly something larger than a lear 60, give me a call...and we'll talk about how speed doesn't translate as a dick extender such as yourself...

Lear 60 and a diamond jet. lmfao

Ever think that throttle might be flying in Alaska bush where his skills would far surpass that of a gear puller such as yourself?

 

[irapilot]

Throttlebender,

As I said - I am not bashing anyone or disrespecting you. I am pointing out, in response to the question asked about SimCom that "You get what you pay for - and SimCom is cheap, ergo you don't get much." That is after 20 years in the biz, attending FSI, SimuFlight and SimCom and giving an unbiased view. When I spoke about the hours that some of the folks had I was pointing out that with somewhat limited experience of some of the respondents that, in my opinion, they would not have the experience necessary to help cosmotheassman make a decision about using SimCom for Hawker training (a multi-million dollar aircraft).

About my response being “crap”, well maybe it was. I ask you to read my 2 posts again, carefully and thoughtfully, utilize your critical thinking skills and see you still think my response was “crap”. I also ask you to take into account that where as I have a right to my opinion and have some experience in flight training, running a flight department and having admittedly good and bad experiences in all three above mentioned flight schools that I did not criticize you, the training you received or your skills as a pilot.

If the training you are receiving fits in with your plan – go for it. Keep in mind though, in our race for the bottom in this industry, that cheaper for the sake of cheaper is what it is and we have to look critically at the training we are receiving and constantly be questioning, is it good enough? Can we do something better? Strive for better quality, higher standards and execute our jobs well and we will get what we deserve. If we enable the race for the bottom, enable these operators of millions of dollars worth of equipment to pay us less and less, cut corners constantly, treat us like paraprofessionals, participate in PFT and get bargain basement training – well, we all suffer for it in the end.

Best of luck.........

 

[cvoav8r]

Good responses...except that the military has the worst safety record of any large aviation org. that we talk about on this board. As for 2004 Air India, Maylasian Airlines and All US airlines put together had fewer fatal accidents than in any three month period for the US Military Services (only counting non-combat). Not to question patriotism. But when it comes to safety and experience the military is not a good example.

As for the straight *8 driver. What's in this for you? Are you challenged by the fact that SimCom is second rate. Is that where you obtained your training? Are you and Throttlebender ready to stake you reputations on SIMCOM. In this great forum of ideas can you offer nothing but an attack on the those that doubt the Quality of SIMCOM. Give me something worth reading or at least make it funny!!

 

[vikaero]

Throttlebender - Dont let any holier than thou aviation adonis wannabe shove any crap at you.... just remember that as long as you are learning and getting better as in striving for the next level you will be fine no matter where you go and train.

cvoav8r - What does Air India have to do with any of this ?

In general people who want to improve and work at it are the ones who make the best of every training event no matter where they go.... the others ... well they want the magic pill to swallow and retain it all without any effort. guess it boils down to taking some ownership and pride in your training as well as yourself.

 

[Throttlebender]

Wow! Some good responses since I've been gone. First, to Irapilot, I apologize for calling your comment "crap." I was having a bad day and my fuse was a little too short. You do make valid points in your second post. I also usually respect most pilots that have vastly greater experience than myself. However, I was trying to point out that just because some of us have less than say 5000 hrs, it doesn't mean we don't know a thing or two. With more time we might learn a thing or three, but in the meantime we're not all idiots either. Also re-read my posts and you'll see that I did state that I couldn't compare other schools to simcom because I haven't been there. I was merely passing on my own experience with them.

As for cvoav8r, what a putz....funny but a putz none the less. Get over yourself. I suppose I am staking my reputation on Simcom in a way. I trained there and have people's lives in my hands because of it. If I didn't feel that it was worthwhile then I should probably keep my butt parked on the ramp don't you think?

Anyway, I love the discussions here and learn a lot as well as find many of you VERY entertaining. Irapilot, sorry again for "crapping" on you. Take it easy.