Sigh, What should I do with this guy?

hotwings402

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Posts
112
Total Time
2100
I had a student get slightly lost and busted a restricted by a few miles may 9 or so. He relized it when he saw a huge military plane coming at him with everything hanging out. He turned of the transponder and ducked down to a couple hundred feet.

First off, ASRS for him and I? Or just me?
Secondly what may come of this FAA wise? He never called any one up on approach or anything and he was going from a uncontrolled airport to another uncontrolled airport, where he was in the state where he turned off the transponder would not likely show up as a primary.
Thirdly, at a minimum what remedial training should I give him?
I was thinking just hammering some or cross country. Maybe even putting him under the hood, getting him lost and having him find his way out of it. Any judgement exercises I can put him through, slight lack of judgement to dive down "below radar". Hes a good stick, just got a little lost.
 

MTpilot

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Posts
291
Total Time
2000
Were you in the airplane with him?!
 

Fly_Chick

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
Posts
311
Total Time
~1300
hotwings402 said:
I had a student get slightly lost and busted a restricted by a few miles may 9 or so.
Was the date May 9th or the miles "maybe 9"?

hotwings402 said:
He turned of the transponder and ducked down to a couple hundred feet.
What were the dimensions of the restricted area?

And why did he turn off his transponder?

hotwings402 said:
Thirdly, at a minimum what remedial training should I give him?
Speak with him about available resources to find out if a restricted area is "hot"? Bring out sectionals from different parts of the country (where he is not familiar) and have him chart a cross-country - make sure it is through a restricted area (okay to use out-dated charts for somewhere else when planning on paper). Make sure he knows whom to contact to find out the status.

Make sure he knows about transponders, just turning it off after having been spotted will not save him, he will still be tracked. Make sure he understands this.

Did he monitor 121.5 or was he already talking with someone on frequency?

Good luck with him, it may have just been a situation where he was "unsure of his current location". Best of luck to him. Just make sure he learns from this and moves forward. Do not let it become a stumbling block. You seem to care about his learning, keep moving forward.
 

hotwings402

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Posts
112
Total Time
2100
He was a on a long solo cross country. The restricted was probably 80 miles long and 20 miles wide. He was just going a short distance to his next airport so he was'nt taking to anyone. He turned of the transponder and ducked down because he did'nt want to get caught. I explained to him that that probably was'nt the smartest thing. A) if you are in a restricted at least let somebody see you. B) Don't fly low.
 

Fly_Chick

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
Posts
311
Total Time
~1300
I know of at least three people out of my flight school who were flying cross-countries (actually hour building so they were private pilots) who have had F16s (or similar) pass very close. They monitored 121.5 (in the cases where they were not talking to anyone) and did not hear a thing.

Is your student sure he went into the restricted area while it was hot? I do not want to downplay this, but perhaps the other guys were "just flying around"?

How long ago did this happen? It is okay not to talk to anyone on cross-countries (if airspace allows) yet make sure your student knows who to contact in the future. Perhaps have him do a cross country and get flight following.

Have a ground session with your student, and LOG IT in his log book. Go over airspace, restricted areas, ATC communciations, cross-country flight planning, lost procedures, safety of flight, intercept procedures.

For future training, you may even go up with him and have him call the "Center" to find out if a restricted area is hot, and have him pick up flight following, and then ask the controllers about the restricted areas along the route.
 

Kream926

pimpin' aint easy
Joined
Feb 28, 2003
Posts
1,196
Total Time
1.21
was he chineeeeeeese flying saay in the state of oklahoma?
 

moxiepilot

Florida Pimp
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
185
Total Time
24/7
Kream926 said:
was he chineeeeeeese flying saay in the state of oklahoma?
boy, you don't give them there spartan kids a break, do ya?
------


well.....was it oklahoma?
 

BD King

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Posts
407
Total Time
14000
This guy was sharp (sort of) he turned the darn transponder off and hit the deck and got the heck out of Dodge. And he was a student! How many students would have the situational awareness to do that? Really? Did they get the N numbers?

www.bdkingpress.com
 

Dr Pokenhiemer

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Posts
301
Total Time
9000+
Did you go over his x/c planning with him and approve his route? Was the restricted area in his planned route? If not, was he lost? If it was in his route, did you instruct him how to find out if it's hot or not? I personally wouldn't send a student onn a x/c near a restricted area just because of this case in point. Maybe you should look at other x/c routes for future students--you can't hold their hands and make decisions for them when they are solo. (You should make decisions for them anyway--that's the hardest thing to teach.)
 

cforst513

Giggity giggity goo!!!
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Posts
1,854
Total Time
2100
why didn't he get VFR flight following? whenever i do solo stuff (still not a Private Pilot yet) i ALWAYS get VFR flight following. they'll help with that kind of stuff. my instructor said he'd kill me if he ever found out that i did a solo X-C w/out flight following. they helped me avoid an MOA (dunno why) and have warned me that the restricted areas were hot. i didn't need them to, but they even gave me headings to fly to avoid them. if i was you, i'd have him start getting VFR flight following whenever possible.
 

SenorSpielbergo

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Posts
153
Total Time
5000
Kream926 said:
was he chineeeeeeese flying saay in the state of oklahoma?
"All your base are belong to us!"
 

Flip

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2002
Posts
125
Total Time
9000
When I was an CFI, 2 of our instructors were busted by the FAA for mistakes the student made on cross countries. :( FAA said the student were at fault but also the instructors for inadequate instruction. One of them got an 'informal' meeting and one had to go back up and fly with the feds. Neither had filed NASA forms.
 

Kream926

pimpin' aint easy
Joined
Feb 28, 2003
Posts
1,196
Total Time
1.21
moxiepilot said:
boy, you don't give them there spartan kids a break, do ya?
------


well.....was it oklahoma?
this has happened numerous <sp> times with some of the international students. some of them are ok
 

hotwings402

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Posts
112
Total Time
2100
Well for starters this kid can fly a airplane better than most 400 hour pilots. His grandfather and dad are pilots, he lives in a fly in community etc etc etc. So hes been around a little, enough to turn off the transponder and not enough to get lost. We spent a good couple hours going over decision making, how do prevent the accident in the future etc. If the FAA wants to hang me then go for it, I've done all the remedial to make sure this never happens again. Furthermore I'm going to take him on a cross country to another restricted.
 
Top