sics paying for time

[barnyard]

Careful what you log

hey dude-

Keep your long term goals in mind. If your ambition is to go to a regional, 'retire' as a captain while continuing to do your real estate thing on the side, the paying for SIC thing might work. However if you're trying to get in the corporate world and show up to an interview with a bunch of single pilot ac SIC time, you have a much grater chance of getting laughed out of the interview in the first 10 minutes.
Where I work there is an SIC program where guys buy right seat time in the single pilot airplanes. Now while the FAA says you can legally log the time SIC, it just looks funny to someone who has been in the business decades. Some guys say they will log PIC time under the 'sole manipulator' rule. While this is legal to do, anyone with any aviation experience knows it's bogus that a 135 would give a 600 hour guy a twin turbine to go fly around as the captain. So your faced with the dilemma that you can actually log the time PIC, while not being the captain of the airplane. Yes you can log the time, but upon logbook inspection at your next interview, the person across the desk mat be looking for PIC time, not 'sole manipulator' time. They may even see it as you falsifying your experience trying to cut in line. Slippery slope.
There is almost no fast track to break into the corporate world (except for knowing mgmt at a company with a flight dept) but if your goal is a regional this may be a good option. My advice is to never put anything in your logbook that could be construed into you lying about your experience. Hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[barnyard]

I agree -- as you say, if an SIC is legally required (by Ops Specs or FAR), the time would be loggable. Not clear if that is the case here; if it is, that pilot should be getting paid!

Someone mentioned this test in another thread: would the PIC be legal to operate the flight without you? If yes, you are not a required SIC. That said, there's nothing wrong with going along on a joyride (buy the guy breakfast, but don't pay for your time!); joyrides are a time-honored aviation tradition.

</rant>

The largest 135 cargo company is granted the privlege of 'assigning' an FO to a flight and making them a required crewmember. But we can bump them for weight. If they dont show, the flight goes anyways. Legal? yes. Kinda silly? yes. Oh well.

 

[MD11Drvr]

JUst one more observation. If you can't afford the pay cut to instruct I surely don't know how you are planning on breaking into this biz. My first flying jobs all cost me money in one way or the other. I never paid for a job but to live in CLT to fly an aztec and make less than 1000.00 a month is a pay cut for most. I was pumping fuel and a little light a&p work so I was not making a lot when I started flying and it was a cut. I worked 10pm-6am at an FBO got off and flew morning traffic went home slept till afternoon traffic flew a few more hours went back to work, Pulled banners on weekends and summers but never instructed. I wish I had instructed but got the time anyways.

I am not saying abandon the dream but maybe save your money from real estate and when you have enough in the bank to keep your life style then jump in. I have many friends that feel off along the way as it is not easy to juggle this career. Good Luck

 

[FN FAL]

Why fly? because I love to fly and that is it.

There you have it, there's nothing wrong with living on love, lot's of people do it. Just don't expect any sympathy when you make the funny papers.

 

[freighthumper]

Buying jobs

1. "I'm self employed doing real eastate and I make pretty good money" So why do you want to start working for an airline that wont appreciate you, pay you much, or let you be home with your family?

2. My mother told me "if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all"

3. Oh well..people who buy time in those "SIC" programs are retarded. You are getting time that had been fudged to be legal in the books, its really nothing more than buying a ticket at an amusement park. You pay the money, go on the ride, but if you arent there..the ride goes on without you..Why? because those "SIC" suckers are nothing more than more than a passenger who gets to play pilot for a couple months. It should be called "SIO" Second In Occupancy. It may seem like a good idea to shell out like 15 grand for some time in a 99 or something like that to try and beat the whole earn your dues thing, but your "dues" cant be bought, and eventually you will be judged for that by someone who at one time or another has been undercut by someone who thought he/she could get ahead by shelling out $(this is about 99 percent of airline pilots).

4. If you are making good $ why not instruct or do another legitimate time building job on the weekends, or maybe take 4 day weekend and build time since you say you are your own boss.

5. If you are REALLY in real estate....you should be able to spell it...that is if this isnt flame bait.

 

[tinman]

Hey Barnyard, good pic. Ain't it the truth.

 

[fre8ersic]

1. "I'm self employed doing real eastate and I make pretty good money" So why do you want to start working for an airline that wont appreciate you, pay you much, or let you be home with your family?

2. My mother told me "if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all"

3. Oh well..people who buy time in those "SIC" programs are retarded. You are getting time that had been fudged to be legal in the books, its really nothing more than buying a ticket at an amusement park. You pay the money, go on the ride, but if you arent there..the ride goes on without you..Why? because those "SIC" suckers are nothing more than more than a passenger who gets to play pilot for a couple months. It should be called "SIO" Second In Occupancy. It may seem like a good idea to shell out like 15 grand for some time in a 99 or something like that to try and beat the whole earn your dues thing, but your "dues" cant be bought, and eventually you will be judged for that by someone who at one time or another has been undercut by someone who thought he/she could get ahead by shelling out $(this is about 99 percent of airline pilots).

4. If you are making good $ why not instruct or do another legitimate time building job on the weekends, or maybe take 4 day weekend and build time since you say you are your own boss.

5. If you are REALLY in real estate....you should be able to spell it...that is if this isnt flame bait.

Easy buddy, that was just a typo.

 

[fre8ersic]

Easy buddy, that was just a typo.

Listen to your mother.

 

[fre8ersic]

Listen to your mother.

 

[Bringupthebird]

If you're making good money, why not buy an Apache and fly it all summer yourself. The kids will get to see the USA from a unique perspective and you'll build multi-engine PIC time. I've seen previously successful people do this when deciding to make a career change late in life.

The Law of Sacrifice is similar to the Law of Conservation of Energy that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form. The "dues" you'l pay to get to your desired career goal will be paid in one form or another. For you, starting later means you'll have a shorter career (provided you want to go the airline route) and your family will have to share in your sacrifice. For many here, they flew checks as single guys and sacrificed some of their time that could have been spent raising a family.

The point is your climb will either be short and steep or long and slow, but the effort and perseverence necesssary will be the same. There are no "short cuts".

 

[fre8ersic]

Thank you dude. I'm still trying to get a pilot job that pays. In the mean time might as well get some twin time anyway I can instead of being idle. Single time out of my local class E airport for me means nothing as far as experience goes. Best regards.

 

[fre8ersic]

If you're making good money, why not buy an Apache and fly it all summer yourself. The kids will get to see the USA from a unique perspective and you'll build multi-engine PIC time. I've seen previously successful people do this when deciding to make a career change late in life.

The Law of Sacrifice is similar to the Law of Conservation of Energy that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form. The "dues" you'l pay to get to your desired career goal will be paid in one form or another. For you, starting later means you'll have a shorter career (provided you want to go the airline route) and your family will have to share in your sacrifice. For many here, they flew checks as single guys and sacrificed some of their time that could have been spent raising a family.

The point is your climb will either be short and steep or long and slow, but the effort and perseverence necesssary will be the same. There are no "short cuts".

Thank you dude.

 

[troy]

Thank you dude. I'm still trying to get a pilot job that pays. In the mean time might as well get some twin time anyway I can instead of being idle. Single time out of my local class E airport for me means nothing as far as experience goes. Best regards.

If no one pays for it, some one can get paid for it (if they need someone bad enough)

PFT sucks for all, and makes us all whores, STOP PAYING FOR RIGHT SEAT TIME~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ePilot22]

Dead Horse

Do a search if you want an idea of what people on this board think about PFT! Quit wasting everyone's time asking a stupid question, then excusing your actions when people disagree about what you do. There is NO justification for PFT! Would you pay to sell a house? No, I didn't think so. So why pay to fly? If you do PFT, then keep it to yourself, we don't need PFTers coming out of their closets and flaunting the fact that they paid to fly. Keep your brokebank assaccount to yourself.

Here's a quote from FN FAL from another thread about the SAME issue. I think he sums it up best...

You get what you pay for in this industry and you get paid what you are worth. If you are worth nothing, you pay to work.

Yeah, my panties are in a bunch and it's because people like you want the easy road and are willing to sell themselves and our industry to get it.

Thanks for dragging it down, I hope I can afford to move on after flight instructing, but it might be hard to pay $35 an hour to fly instead of earning it.

What a waste...



eP.

 

[ePilot22]

I'm still trying to get a pilot job that pays.

HAHAHAHAHA! What employer is going to be stupid enough to PAY you! They know you're willing to pay them! Don't expect to much. And DON'T complain when you don't get it either!

In the mean time might as well get some twin time anyway I can instead of being idle.

Really? And whos' flying the plane. NOT YOU! I sure hope the PIC isn't letting you do anything more than keep the seat warm!

Single time out of my local class E airport for me means nothing as far as experience goes.

Experience this...:uzi: ! You're an idiot!




eP.

 

[ePilot22]

For your info. You can't get paid as SIC on a plane that doesn't require 2 pilots.

For YOUR info. you CAN'T log time as SIC on a plane that doesn't require 2 pilots.

If 2 pilots are required both should be qualified and be PAID!

If it's a single pilot op then your dumba$$ is a glorified passenger.

... .




eP.

 

[fre8ersic]

For YOUR info. you CAN'T log time as SIC on a plane that doesn't require 2 pilots.

If 2 pilots are required both should be qualified and be PAID!

If it's a single pilot op then your dumba$$ is a glorified passenger.

... .




eP.

You shoudn't be insulting people, you are acting like a little kid out of college who's panties are moist!!

 

[Bringupthebird]

Would you pay to sell a house? No, I didn't think so. eP.

Aw crap! Would you mind going and getting the $8500 I paid that real estate agent? You see that was alot less than the cost of carrying two mortgages for a year, but as you have pointed out, that was insane! What was I thinking!!??
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
(aside) you see, buddy, I'm making a mockery of your analogy which is only fun since you jumped this guys butt with such reckless abandon.
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So once everyone stops paying for training, stops riding right seat in corporate airplanes, stops taking CFI jobs for $7.00/hr, stops going to work for the lowest paid, most exploitative commuter, stops applying at majors that pay less than FedEx and stop with all these destructive concessions when they do get to a major, then we'll have a real profession again.

For Service Academy Grads only, I suppose.

 

[imacdog]

Yeah but you paid for a service. Those who pay to act as a professional pilot are paying to provide a service. Your realtor did not pay you, did he?

Only in aviation

 

[ePilot22]

Let's make a deal...

Would you mind going and getting the $8500 I paid that real estate agent?

Funny...I thought the guy I "jumped on with such reckless abandon" was a real estate agent.

So did your real estate agent pay you to sell your house?

Side note: guy, jumped, and butt is not something I do! With or without reckless abandon. :erm:.





eP.