sics paying for time

[fre8ersic]

Thank you dude. I'm still trying to get a pilot job that pays. In the mean time might as well get some twin time anyway I can instead of being idle. Single time out of my local class E airport for me means nothing as far as experience goes. Best regards.

 

[fre8ersic]

If you're making good money, why not buy an Apache and fly it all summer yourself. The kids will get to see the USA from a unique perspective and you'll build multi-engine PIC time. I've seen previously successful people do this when deciding to make a career change late in life.

The Law of Sacrifice is similar to the Law of Conservation of Energy that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form. The "dues" you'l pay to get to your desired career goal will be paid in one form or another. For you, starting later means you'll have a shorter career (provided you want to go the airline route) and your family will have to share in your sacrifice. For many here, they flew checks as single guys and sacrificed some of their time that could have been spent raising a family.

The point is your climb will either be short and steep or long and slow, but the effort and perseverence necesssary will be the same. There are no "short cuts".

Thank you dude.

 

[troy]

Thank you dude. I'm still trying to get a pilot job that pays. In the mean time might as well get some twin time anyway I can instead of being idle. Single time out of my local class E airport for me means nothing as far as experience goes. Best regards.

If no one pays for it, some one can get paid for it (if they need someone bad enough)

PFT sucks for all, and makes us all whores, STOP PAYING FOR RIGHT SEAT TIME~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ePilot22]

Dead Horse

Do a search if you want an idea of what people on this board think about PFT! Quit wasting everyone's time asking a stupid question, then excusing your actions when people disagree about what you do. There is NO justification for PFT! Would you pay to sell a house? No, I didn't think so. So why pay to fly? If you do PFT, then keep it to yourself, we don't need PFTers coming out of their closets and flaunting the fact that they paid to fly. Keep your brokebank assaccount to yourself.

Here's a quote from FN FAL from another thread about the SAME issue. I think he sums it up best...

You get what you pay for in this industry and you get paid what you are worth. If you are worth nothing, you pay to work.

Yeah, my panties are in a bunch and it's because people like you want the easy road and are willing to sell themselves and our industry to get it.

Thanks for dragging it down, I hope I can afford to move on after flight instructing, but it might be hard to pay $35 an hour to fly instead of earning it.

What a waste...



eP.

 

[ePilot22]

I'm still trying to get a pilot job that pays.

HAHAHAHAHA! What employer is going to be stupid enough to PAY you! They know you're willing to pay them! Don't expect to much. And DON'T complain when you don't get it either!

In the mean time might as well get some twin time anyway I can instead of being idle.

Really? And whos' flying the plane. NOT YOU! I sure hope the PIC isn't letting you do anything more than keep the seat warm!

Single time out of my local class E airport for me means nothing as far as experience goes.

Experience this...:uzi: ! You're an idiot!




eP.

 

[ePilot22]

For your info. You can't get paid as SIC on a plane that doesn't require 2 pilots.

For YOUR info. you CAN'T log time as SIC on a plane that doesn't require 2 pilots.

If 2 pilots are required both should be qualified and be PAID!

If it's a single pilot op then your dumba$$ is a glorified passenger.

... .




eP.

 

[fre8ersic]

For YOUR info. you CAN'T log time as SIC on a plane that doesn't require 2 pilots.

If 2 pilots are required both should be qualified and be PAID!

If it's a single pilot op then your dumba$$ is a glorified passenger.

... .




eP.

You shoudn't be insulting people, you are acting like a little kid out of college who's panties are moist!!

 

[Bringupthebird]

Would you pay to sell a house? No, I didn't think so. eP.

Aw crap! Would you mind going and getting the $8500 I paid that real estate agent? You see that was alot less than the cost of carrying two mortgages for a year, but as you have pointed out, that was insane! What was I thinking!!??
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
(aside) you see, buddy, I'm making a mockery of your analogy which is only fun since you jumped this guys butt with such reckless abandon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
So once everyone stops paying for training, stops riding right seat in corporate airplanes, stops taking CFI jobs for $7.00/hr, stops going to work for the lowest paid, most exploitative commuter, stops applying at majors that pay less than FedEx and stop with all these destructive concessions when they do get to a major, then we'll have a real profession again.

For Service Academy Grads only, I suppose.

 

[imacdog]

Yeah but you paid for a service. Those who pay to act as a professional pilot are paying to provide a service. Your realtor did not pay you, did he?

Only in aviation

 

[ePilot22]

Let's make a deal...

Would you mind going and getting the $8500 I paid that real estate agent?

Funny...I thought the guy I "jumped on with such reckless abandon" was a real estate agent.

So did your real estate agent pay you to sell your house?

Side note: guy, jumped, and butt is not something I do! With or without reckless abandon. :erm:.





eP.

 

[N1FuelFlow]

If 2 pilots are required both should be qualified and be PAID!

If it's a single pilot op then your dumba$$ is a glorified passenger.

... .

I was an SIC in a metroliner a while back and the metros were single pilot, but the faa qualifies it to make it an optional two pilot crew. I was fortunate to get in before companies stated making people pay. I was paid about 500.00 a month. It was excelent experience but I don't know if I would pay for it. It just seems if they used to hire people off the street people must have screwed their selfs by offering to pay money. I fly with guys now who went through the Mesa Pay for training program, they fly the airplane well but they just are lacking the real world experience. To be honest with you it seems like you come out of that program a trained switch monkey. I just have a hard time paying for time. Its your call I do think it is becoming more accepted in the airline world, even though I cringe a little when I hear someone paid 15G's for time.

 

[fre8ersic]

Aw crap! Would you mind going and getting the $8500 I paid that real estate agent? You see that was alot less than the cost of carrying two mortgages for a year, but as you have pointed out, that was insane! What was I thinking!!??
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
(aside) you see, buddy, I'm making a mockery of your analogy which is only fun since you jumped this guys butt with such reckless abandon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
So once everyone stops paying for training, stops riding right seat in corporate airplanes, stops taking CFI jobs for $7.00/hr, stops going to work for the lowest paid, most exploitative commuter, stops applying at majors that pay less than FedEx and stop with all these destructive concessions when they do get to a major, then we'll have a real profession again.

For Service Academy Grads only, I suppose.

Everything you said is very true. Everybody is trying to get to the top the best way they can while some are trying to support a family and fly some are trying to instruct for a mediocre pay.

 

[fre8ersic]

Yeah but you paid for a service. Those who pay to act as a professional pilot are paying to provide a service. Your realtor did not pay you, did he?

Only in aviation

While I'm prividing a service I'm also getting good experience. $7.00 an hr. to instruct or pay a little over that to get twin time and lots of IMC

?

 

[imacdog]

I got good experience at the different places I worked, but the difference is I also got a paycheck. When I talk about my past experience I don't have to put a sad face on the thread like you do.

 

[fre8ersic]

I got good experience at the different places I worked, but the difference is I also got a paycheck. When I talk about my past experience I don't have to put a sad face on the thread like you do.

Don't lie and say you were happy with your pay as an instructor. Most of my friends are instructors and they hate the pay.

 

[fre8ersic]

If 2 pilots are required both should be qualified and be PAID!

If it's a single pilot op then your dumba$$ is a glorified passenger.

... .

I was an SIC in a metroliner a while back and the metros were single pilot, but the faa qualifies it to make it an optional two pilot crew. I was fortunate to get in before companies stated making people pay. I was paid about 500.00 a month. It was excelent experience but I don't know if I would pay for it. It just seems if they used to hire people off the street people must have screwed their selfs by offering to pay money. I fly with guys now who went through the Mesa Pay for training program, they fly the airplane well but they just are lacking the real world experience. To be honest with you it seems like you come out of that program a trained switch monkey. I just have a hard time paying for time. Its your call I do think it is becoming more accepted in the airline world, even though I cringe a little when I hear someone paid 15G's for time.

Another insult from an insecure pilot. Does it make you feel better?

 

[imacdog]

I certainly haven't lied any time during this thread. The only time I was truly happy with my pay was when I was flying Beavers. But any pay, when acting as a professional, is better than no pay. Because suckers like you continue to offer to pay to work, there will be less opportunities to make money in this business. Think about it, you could be making money doing what you do if you just grew a sack and demanded to be paid for your services. Otherwise, enjoy being a glorified passenger. I'm glad I didn't have to cart any passengers around when I flew freight. But to be honest, I'm just suspecting this is all flame. No one is dumb enough to start a thread about pay-for-work and be surprised with people's reactions. Have a nice day.

 

[Photoflight]

But but but but....im a real estate agent and so I don't have to flight instruct. The guys at DCA promised me an interview and some 1900 time for only 100,000. And I don't even have to start paying it back tell six months after I graduate.

-----heres to hoping you never make it in this business.

As for it becoming more accepted I hope that in the next couple of years the guys who've been flying the line with all the pft'ers and PFJ clowns get on the hiring board and start laughing at these guys when they walk in the room.

 

[ePilot22]

Seat Warmer

Don't lie and say you were happy with your pay as an instructor. Most of my friends are instructors and they hate the pay.

Your friends are getting paid what they are worth!

I'm MORE than happy with what I make as a flight instructor (I just wish it was more consistent)!

Another insult from an insecure pilot.

You're the one buying his job! Seems to me you're insecure.

Everybody is trying to get to the top the best way they can while some are trying to support a family and fly some are trying to instruct for a mediocre pay.

And thanks to you I'll be earning less flying freight than instructing.

You bash on the bad CFIs you know, and yet instead of trying to become a good CFI, you choose to buy a job and steal from the industry.

$7.00 an hr. to instruct or pay a little over that to get twin time and lots of IMC

Your logic is as f ***ed up as you are!

EARN a job - quit buying one!





eP.

 

[ePilot22]

I'm just suspecting this is all flame. No one is dumb enough to start a thread about pay-for-work and be surprised with people's reactions. Have a nice day.

:beer:

As for it becoming more accepted I hope that in the next couple of years the guys who've been flying the line with all the pft'ers and PFJ clowns get on the hiring board and start laughing at these guys when they walk in the room.

Well Said!








eP.

 

[fre8ersic]

But but but but....im a real estate agent and so I don't have to flight instruct. The guys at DCA promised me an interview and some 1900 time for only 100,000. And I don't even have to start paying it back tell six months after I graduate.

-----heres to hoping you never make it in this business.

As for it becoming more accepted I hope that in the next couple of years the guys who've been flying the line with all the pft'ers and PFJ clowns get on the hiring board and start laughing at these guys when they walk in the room.

Quit crying so much, that's my point, when I get done here soon I won't be in debt like you guys paying all your student loans, unless DADDY paid for all your ratings. I'm proud to say I worked and paid for my own schooling. Same luck to you.

 

[Stealthh21]

Flight instructing helps develop interpersonal skills (which will help with CRM later in life.) That experience can not be bought.

I've flown with hundreds of CA's, FO's ... and you can always tell which ones never instructed.

Sorry you can't always tell that. You are wrong. I am sure you can tell sometimes. I can tell that you probably instructed. Because only and instructor would say such a thing.

stealthh

 

[fre8ersic]

Your friends are getting paid what they are worth!

I'm MORE than happy with what I make as a flight instructor (I just wish it was more consistent)!



You're the one buying his job! Seems to me you're insecure.



And thanks to you I'll be earning less flying freight than instructing.

You bash on the bad CFIs you know, and yet instead of trying to become a good CFI, you choose to buy a job and steal from the industry.



Your logic is as f ***ed up as you are!

EARN a job - quit buying one!




















eP.

You are right, not enough consistancy in flight instructing, is not what it used to be, it will take you 2 years to get your time and when you do you will not have enough twin time, then What? You are going to fly freight for low pay, so it's not just me hurting the industry (as you called it) you are too by flight instructing and flying freight for low pay and probably majors too, actually you have more negative influence on the industry, you are the one taking low paying jobs, you need to demand more pay instead of taking it. Also I wasn't bashing on the CFIs nor called them bad you need to quit saying thing I didn't say. If you need to put people down to make you feel better or to prove a point you are the insecure one just ask any psychologist, so it seems to me you are the F*** up one.

 

[fre8ersic]

I certainly haven't lied any time during this thread. The only time I was truly happy with my pay was when I was flying Beavers. But any pay, when acting as a professional, is better than no pay. Because suckers like you continue to offer to pay to work, there will be less opportunities to make money in this business. Think about it, you could be making money doing what you do if you just grew a sack and demanded to be paid for your services. Otherwise, enjoy being a glorified passenger. I'm glad I didn't have to cart any passengers around when I flew freight. But to be honest, I'm just suspecting this is all flame. No one is dumb enough to start a thread about pay-for-work and be surprised with people's reactions. Have a nice day.

You're the one to talk ha!! Flying for comair, another low paying job, Who is hurting the industry now by taking a low paying job? U need to grow a sack (as u said) and demand more pay and quit acting like you get paid so much. People like you are the ones really hurting the industry. I'm not taking anybody's job yet and when I do , if I do, it won't be for low pay. If they don't pay me well, screw them, I'll go some where else even if it means not flying for hire, that's what every pilot should do. Must of you guys are single anyway (young flight instructors and freighters) Why take a low paying job? Stick to your guns and wait for a good one. All it takes is one day, everybody gets together and stops flying and you can watch them beg you to come back and maybe better pay but there's always somebody like you willing to jump at a low paying job just to get the spot. So quit crying and talking about others. I asked for advise if you guys don't have any please keep your anger to yourself.

 

[Bringupthebird]

The guy who wants to buy his job says he wants to do it because he loves to fly. My question is, What is it about flying that you love at this point? And why do you think there is more of that ahead of you? If you love ever greater sacrifices in pursuit of ever diminishing returns, then you've come to the right place.

If you are one of the 98% of the pilots trying to get the 2% of jobs still considered "good" and worth all the sacrifice, then I'll let you in on a little secret I was too dumb to listen to 20 years ago: It ain't gonna be there when you get there.

Your desire to speed up the process by simply buying what used to be left to luck and skill and experience won't be what ruins the industry, not by itself. It is part of the transformation of the industry into what it's so-called leaders want: cheap pilots that don't crash planes too often. Years ago, the risk was too great to put these types behind the wheel, but now our society accepts a few crashes as reasonable risks in exchange for slightly lower airfares provided by a wide variety of very similar airlines. It is unrealistic for members of our profession to expect more backbone from one part (the newbie) than it demands from another (say the major airline pilot looking to keep his dwindling paycheck for another day) especially when the weakest link in the chain is the airline management that gets away with putting a guy in the cockpit whose primary qualification is the credit limit on his Visa card.

So long story short, your dilemna is there because we allow the airlines to put it there. If we allow PFT, why not recurrent or upgrade sold as investments in your career? Heck they might even payroll deduct it for you. Maybe ALPA will embrace it as portability of credentials which, when combined with an elimination of the traditional seniority system, might make lateral moves and upgrades with different airlines without starting at the bottom in one's career possible. See where I am going with this?

Or you could buy a Skyhawk and fly to pancake breakfasts on Saturday mornings and retain some of the love for aviation you have now.

PS - I have not been invited back for career day at my kid's school

 

[81Horse]

My mother-in-law is a real estate agent. She's rather well off, and doesn't need to work -- but she loves the business; so she's not charging her clients a thing! They keep the commissions, and they're just thrilled about it. And it keeps the MIL busy, and out of Nordstrom.

Of course, she had to have a remote starter installed in her car.

 

[fre8ersic]

The guy who wants to buy his job says he wants to do it because he loves to fly. My question is, What is it about flying that you love at this point? And why do you think there is more of that ahead of you? If you love ever greater sacrifices in pursuit of ever diminishing returns, then you've come to the right place.

If you are one of the 98% of the pilots trying to get the 2% of jobs still considered "good" and worth all the sacrifice, then I'll let you in on a little secret I was too dumb to listen to 20 years ago: It ain't gonna be there when you get there.

Your desire to speed up the process by simply buying what used to be left to luck and skill and experience won't be what ruins the industry, not by itself. It is part of the transformation of the industry into what it's so-called leaders want: cheap pilots that don't crash planes too often. Years ago, the risk was too great to put these types behind the wheel, but now our society accepts a few crashes as reasonable risks in exchange for slightly lower airfares provided by a wide variety of very similar airlines. It is unrealistic for members of our profession to expect more backbone from one part (the newbie) than it demands from another (say the major airline pilot looking to keep his dwindling paycheck for another day) especially when the weakest link in the chain is the airline management that gets away with putting a guy in the cockpit whose primary qualification is the credit limit on his Visa card.

So long story short, your dilemna is there because we allow the airlines to put it there. If we allow PFT, why not recurrent or upgrade sold as investments in your career? Heck they might even payroll deduct it for you. Maybe ALPA will embrace it as portability of credentials which, when combined with an elimination of the traditional seniority system, might make lateral moves and upgrades with different airlines without starting at the bottom in one's career possible. See where I am going with this?

Or you could buy a Skyhawk and fly to pancake breakfasts on Saturday mornings and retain some of the love for aviation you have now.

PS - I have not been invited back for career day at my kid's school

I love everything about flying at this point. Well, to answer your second question, I know 2 chief pilots in good paying coorporations (part 135) both very good friends of mine, sometimes is who you know to get those good paying jobs ,sad but true! There's is no way that I will try to get a job on an airliner that insults us pilots with low paying jobs, But a lot guys are still doing it and the airlines know it and they are going to keep getting away with paying us poor salaries untill we all do something about it. PFT is only part of it, not a major impact yet. I wouldn't buy a Skyhawk I'll buy a Skybolt for first choice or a twin. Good Day. Good flying!!!

 

[fre8ersic]

My mother-in-law is a real estate agent. She's rather well off, and doesn't need to work -- but she loves the business; so she's not charging her clients a thing! They keep the commissions, and they're just thrilled about it. And it keeps the MIL busy, and out of Nordstrom.

Of course, she had to have a remote starter installed in her car.

I'm not a real estate agent, I'm self employed doing real estate doing all right with plenty of free time to fly

I'm a little lucky but I worked hard to get there. You should consider doing real estate if you are not already doing it, you can make pretty good money on your time off when you are not flying.
Good flying!!!

 

[81Horse]

There's is no way that I will try to get a job on an airliner that insults us pilots with low paying jobs

And yet ... you are paying to ride along as SIC on a plane that doesn't (apparently) require one, in order to log unloggable time.

If you want to fly professionally, go get some kind of flying job (doesn't have to be instructing). Otherwise, you're just a drag on the profession. Buy an airplane, have some fun.

Thanks for real estate advice; I'll pass, though. The spouse and I both get paid to fly airplanes -- if we ever need a little extra income, we could always start having our F/Os pay us for letting them ride along.

 

[fre8ersic]

And yet ... you are paying to ride along as SIC on a plane that doesn't (apparently) require one, in order to log unloggable time.

If you want to fly professionally, go get some kind of flying job (doesn't have to be instructing). Otherwise, you're just a drag on the profession. Buy an airplane, have some fun.

Thanks for real estate advice; I'll pass, though. The spouse and I both get paid to fly airplanes -- if we ever need a little extra income, we could always start having our F/Os pay us for letting them ride along.

The plane I'm flying requires one, read and understand what I wrote!! I can log every bit of my time, I passed a Part 135 check ride just like the PICs on the plane I'm flying. Like I said before I am not taking anybody's job so you and your "wife" are the drag in the proffession by taking the low paying jobs, I can tell you are not very happy with your job wishing for better pay but you did it to yourself that's the diffrence between you and I, I'm not gonna make the mistakes you old timers made, that's why I'm not doing it the old schools way.
Passing on real estate is the dumbest thing I ever heard. I can buy a nice twin, paid off, if I want, but why? I can get it done cheaper, my job is there just waiting for me. If you and your wife ever are out of a job you are gonna wish you would be doing real estate, if you do it right, it will give you plenty of money and lots of free time.
" WE COULD ALWAYS START HAVING OUR FOs PAY US FOR LETTING THEM RIDE ALONG"

Sound like you require to have FOs, and you are making it sound like you own the business, either way you make no sense.
No hard feelings. GOOD FLYING!!!!!