Shuttle America

[BendOverAgain?]

So with this scenario, a pilot on the SA seniority list could jump ahead of me on the CHQ list.



I realize they got screwed before and the CHQ union dropped the ball by not protecting them. However why should that allow them to now jump me 3 years later?

So, you don't think it's fair for a pilot that has been with Shuttle greater than your 3 ½ year to move ahead of you! What makes you more special than them?

1. Shuttle America pilots have been flying Saab's and covering the Chq leases on them so that they would look better in the IPO being a "All Jet Airline".

2. Shuttle has been under Republic unoffically from the begining with Chq/Republic doing the lines each month (and a Sh*tty job I must say - no productivity or QOL built in). Not to mention payroll, website etc, etc...

3. We're all owned by Wexford, and the so called buyout by Republic now is nothing more than a legal paper shuffle as we've always been controlled by Republic, Even our CEO is Republic! Single Carrier Status anyone?

4. Why Chq is concerned about Shuttle from the beginning I'll never figure out. When we had a jet offer on the table, Chq pilots were stating (on this site) to vote it down and we're brothers and we must stick together. Then after the "NO" vote, Shuttle pilots received a 10% pay cut for a year, Chq recieved a pay raise and voted in the jet - leaving Shuttle pilots removed from even future preferential hiring or interviews should the need arise. Then all we heard was that we aren't brothers since our title doesn't state that we are part of Republic holdings. Well we were unofficially and soon to be finally official since we have the only certificate without a scope clause under Wexfords belt.

Let's not stray as management hopes we will. As long as there is a division amongst the pilot group management will always have an ace to play.

Finally treat each other as equals and not as subordinates. A fair merger for all can only be had by a DOH or % ratio. With the three (and in the near future 4) types of aircraft, the 88 pilots merging in the different a/c types will be too little to be a factor.

Strenght by unity.

 

[HughBeamont]

So with this scenario, a pilot on the SA seniority list could jump ahead of me on the CHQ list. I realize they got screwed before and the CHQ union dropped the ball by not protecting them. However why should that allow them to now jump me 3 ½ years later?

You and KingAirer should get together. You could throw back some beers and talk about yourselves. Since it's all about you.

 

[parrothead]

You know, Wexford could just give the 170's to SA, not bring them under the Republic umbrella and screw the CHQ pilots out of all of it. And it would be legal!! It's now Shuttle flying with Shuttle planes!! Please, everyone just shut up and let it roll!!!!!!!!! Please don't be a bunch of babies!



Can't we all just get along?

 

[Corbon]

Why should the guys who got fired after 9/11 and went to Shuttle get any special treatment? I don't understand this. I got fired too, except I waited for a recall and it happened. They didn't. They took the first thing that came along and resigned their seniority number at CHQ. Why should they go ahead of me in seniority because they made a bad career move? Life is full of choices and you should be responsible for the ones you make.

 

[godsgift2aviatn]

All you junior Hoffas out there, answer this:

1).Which union ultimatley has control over flying done on the SA certificate?

2).How long will the SA pilots be "StuckInASaab"?

3).How many pilots on the CHQ list?

4).How many pilots on the SA list?

5).What is the most equitable merge option?

6).What will happen if no agreement is reached?

 

[Chip]

All you junior Hoffas out there, answer this:

1).Which union ultimatley has control over flying done on the SA certificate?

2).How long will the SA pilots be "StuckInASaab"?

3).How many pilots on the CHQ list?

4).How many pilots on the SA list?

5).What is the most equitable merge option?

6).What will happen if no agreement is reached?

1. The teamsters union.
2. hopefully until the Saabs are all gone.
3. 1200 +/-
4. 100 +/-
5. A percentage merge. Not DOH!
6. Then we could all die.

 

[TWAER]

First of all, I am not for a staple. I am also not for straight DOH. There has to some compromise here. And let's face it, some people are not going to be happy.

Second, If I here one more time that the SA pilots are owed something for "taking" the Saabs off CHQ hands, I'll be sick. You may have helped CHQ MANAGEMENT, but you did nothing for this pilot group. There are many many many guys and gals here at CHQ that think that the Saabs should still be here or nowhere. So quit the "you saved the CHQ pilot group, now we want ours" speech. Nobody will ever be able to prove that if CHQ still operated the Saab, that we would not be exactly where we are today. We may even have had 100 more pilots on our list. Who knows??


Third, I welcome all SA pilots to the list when it happens. And again, staple is not the way to go here.

 

[Viper1948]

Not to appear naive, but isn't Republic Holdings (not CHQ or Republic Airways) offically acquiring Shuttle from Wexford - a paper shuffle really?

Therefore Shuttle will continue to be a small airline, wholly owned by Republic holdings, just like CHQ and Republic. It has a certificate to fly among others 170/190 aircraft and no scope clause limiting flying those types of jets for anyone.

Republic Airways lacks a certificate to fly 170/190 aircraft at the present time, but when they do, CHQ pilots have the right to fly them.

CHQ has a problem with a scope clause limiting their flying to 50 seat or smaller for some time to come.

The merger appears to be only a merger of the pilot list, NOT a merger or acquisition of one airline by another. CHQ beings owned by Republic will be no different than Shuttle being owned by Republic - equal albeit different size regionals.

Management may just solve the problem by not going forward with Republic Airways (non-union) and just have Shuttle fly the 170/190 under their certificate with their pilots. Nothing in CHQ's contract appears to say they fly Shuttle's 170's, only Republic's 170's.

So staple Shuttle pilots to CHQ's list for 145 flying and staple CHQ pilots to Shuttle's list for Saab and 170/190 flying. Management gets to keep a crappy contract in place for the SA pilots (they fly cheap with crap work rules) and CHQ gets to fly non-existant 170's under the non-existant Republic.

Or am I just naive???

Sign me, Just an outsider looking in and wondering if flipping burgers between charters ain't a better way to go than join the comradarie of the professional pilot !community....

 

[I.P. Freley]

Viper, as an outsider you've got a better hold on this than some on the "inside".

The only thing that I see you have "wrong" is that I don't think Wexford/Republic could just have transferred the flying to an independent Shuttle America, because the codeshare deals in place are with RAH. First off, their present major airline partners can veto any idea wherein their current CHQ flying is transferred to SA, which I believe already happened with AA and CHQ's 10-or-so 140's. Furthermore, since RAH is now a publicly-held company, the investors could probably have a good argument in court that the company they "own" is being devalued by tranferring the plum flying off that certificate and on to another.

On another topic, I'll have to agree with Corbon's assertion that the former CHQ pilots on the SA list should not be given special treatment and get their old CHQ number back... Even though I am personal friends with at least two of the four (?) people who'd stand to gain from this. Yes, they got screwed by CHQ, but all those individuals will get quite respectable numbers at CHQ after they're integrated.

 

[SlapShot]

You and KingAirer should get together. You could throw back some beers and talk about yourselves. Since it's all about you.

First of all, it is not all about me. It is about fairness to everyone involved.



Granted my post may have seemed personnel but it was not intended that way. I was just stating my opinion.

 

[StuckInASaab]

Why should the guys who got fired after 9/11 and went to Shuttle get any special treatment? I don't understand this. I got fired too, except I waited for a recall and it happened. They didn't. They took the first thing that came along and resigned their seniority number at CHQ. Why should they go ahead of me in seniority because they made a bad career move? Life is full of choices and you should be responsible for the ones you make.

Hey, A$$, they were fed some major bull regarding their futures with the company. And so were you. Some of those guys you call "Brother" over there at CHQ, also resigned their seniority, but not from CHQ. They got lucky because they had a job in between, so they resigned from that. Good for them. But don't be so high and mighty because someone has to put food on the table. Are you gonna feed their family, or buy their clothes? I mean come on, you probably went to school with most of them.

Now I am among the group that believes that they should be integrated fairly, and with the rest of the pilots on the list. It would be a great sign of unity. They should not get their old numbers back, and obviously, not be put senior to you.

I am gonna be flying with a good lot of you for the next couple of years, so lets try to get along. I say couple because the love for REGIONAL airlines has been beaten out of most of us at SA, so I can't imagine, no matter how great life is over at Chapublic America, any more than half of us plan on staying forever. So the small ding that the additon of 86 pilots will cause on your prescious list will be short lived.

Lets try this. RAH, thank you for the opportunity to have a future. I have been so scared about what my life was beyond shuttle, that no matter where I fall on the CHQ/SA/RA seniority list, I don't have to worry. At least I can afford a house, car payment, and maybe a date every once and a while.

unity

 

[dakotaHC8]

Hmmmm, Interesting...

So let me ask this then. If that is the case with those at Shuttle America, then would you not think it fair to do the same with those of us now flying at Midatlantic...?

Being as we are bringing in 25 aircraft now along with 3 growth aircraft for 28 near term. And have an agreement in place for an additional 19 aircraft (including a number of E-190's, of which only our scope clause allows) for a total of 47 E-Jets under US Airways colors...

Just wondering because as it stands, the question remains exactly what the pilots now on the CHQ senority list would like to see and what is fair in terms of an future integration once the deal (in whatever form) goes through.

Curious about opinions. Thanks

 

[I.P. Freley]

If that is the case with those at Shuttle America, then would you not think it fair to do the same with those of us now flying at Midatlantic...?

Sure, if the USAir/RAH deal gets to the point that an integration of seniority lists becomes part of the program, you should get the same treatment as SA.

The only problem there is that different unions represent both groups, so things could get very, very sticky...

 

[Capt.SpongeBob]

Come on over, the more the merrier.

 

[dakotaHC8]

Yes and no, Both are AFL-CIO. And there already exists somewhat of a working relationship between the two parties.

For example, back in the last contract talks for CHQ, when Republic was proposed as a stand alone alter-ego airline, Both ALPA National and the US Airways ALPA stood with the CHQ Teamsters and fought against the creation of such a thing. (at least as US Airways Express was concerned it would have been a no go).

The reason I ask, is that I overheard a few complaints in the PHL crewroom, and one newly upgraded CHQ CA waiting for a flight in IND expressing disatisfaction with what theyviewed as anything that might slow their short upgrade time. IMO it seems that with the growth that we would be bringing to the party, that if anything the USX flying would speed upgrades and increase hiring rather than slow things down.

It is just my opinion, but in the long run it seems there is more to be gained from working together to find a mutually acceptable situation than to butt heads. Afterall, what is weak and with pilots on furlough today, might find itself merged into another airline and strong tommorow.

Just food for thought, but I would really like to hear some feedback from CHQ/SA guys/gals.

Thanks

 

[BendOverAgain?]

DakotaHC8,

I fully agree with Allegheny and Mohawk Article 3 Fair and Equitable!!!

This is the point the SA pilot group wants to get across to the pilot group at CHQ (or at least the 10% complaining).

You bring a/c & growth, come on over. Strength in a larger unified group!

 

[KingAirer]

The reason I ask, is that I overheard a few complaints in the PHL crewroom, and one newly upgraded CHQ CA waiting for a flight in IND expressing disatisfaction with what theyviewed as anything that might slow their short upgrade time. IMO it seems that with the growth that we would be bringing to the party, that if anything the USX flying would speed upgrades and increase hiring rather than slow things down.

Im not sure I follow here. Are you talking about J4J or integration or what?