Should I leave Mesa and go to Pinnacle?

[A-V-8]

I have searched Pinnacle on this board and have read virtually all that there is to read. I know; I shouldn’t have gone to Mesa in the first place. I am on the CRJ and they are only letting CRJ F.O.s upgrade on the CRJ. I was awarded a class date back in October. They canceled all upgrades along with all vacations and anything else that they could cancel to torture us.

If I get sent to upgrade I am facing reserve in ORD. I will be single digits from the bottom of the roster. At Mesa it is 8 days off in 28 (9 per month) for who knows how long. Our contract is amendable now but not in negotiations at all because management will not meet with or release our negotiating committee.

I have a friend who is a former Mesa pilot and he is in training. They awarded him captain almost immediately. He says that he thinks that the instant upgrade will continue at least for a few more months into the foreseeable future. With the Delta CRJ’s still coming and only 2 on property this could be an opportunity for me to go get the PIC time that I have been short changed out of at Mesa because they will not award me the ERJ (Clearly in violation of our contract. Folks a year to my junior are on it a PIC).

Everyone in the last new hire class recorded at least one failure on a checking event, some had two failures and a few had three. A single failure in initial new hire generaly won't hurt you when you interview for another job. The last upgrade class had a failure rate of 80% on their intial type rides. Prior to that the rate had been running 30 to 50 percent. A type ride failure takes a lot of explaining in an interview. After all, the interview process at a major is designed to do two things. Find the applicants that will complete training on schedule and be good employees.

After speaking with my friend at Pinnacle he said he did not think that the failure rate is that high and most of the failures were folks who did not have a lot of CRJ time. I have 3000 Hrs. Is that the case?

Pay sucks ($55/hr), work rules suck, QOL sucks, and reserve extremely sucks (and 2+ years of it probably)

One more day off and roughly the same pay as Mesa. Pulling reserve in DTW or pulling reserve at ORD. My buddy also told me that they have Ready Reserve but they don’t use it. 90 min callout at both companies. Commute to DTW just as easy as ORD. One more day off and no ready reserve. If they block my days off at two 3’s and two 2’s that will be a considerable improvement over Mesa. Do they block all of the reserve lines like this? What are the reserve schedules like? At Mesa I will be facing 6 on 1 off 1 -2 times per bid and plenty of Ready Reserve to go with it.
How much flight time could I expect to fly on reserve?

don't come to pinnacle!!!!!!!!!! its a waste of time. unless you like to be treated like crap on a daily basis!!!!!!!!

I don’t like being treated like crap but I can’t see it being any worse that the way I am going to be treated at Mesa.

We lost 69 pilots last month. We had to turn away about 2000 Hrs. of flying in ORD because we can’t staff it. SkyWest received that flying. We can’t get folks through IOE because we have about half the number of IOE Check Airmen that we started the year with. Add in that they are now scheduling IOE students for a whole bid with Check Airmen because the average time to get through IOE is over 80 Hrs. Add that to no new hires and it all equals BAD BAD BAD. They owe me nearly 15,000 in backed wages over the ERJ holdback and another 3K or so from the Harris Award. That along with 80M for Hawaii and Aloha has yet to stake their claim. Most of my friends at Mesa think that we have lost a code share or will pull completely out of United and send the planes to our new China operation. That is the system that I was awarded Captain. So where does that leave me? Applying to Pinnacle. Preparing my Resume today.

If I send it they may not interview me.

If they interview me they may not hire me.

If they hire me I may not go.

Just frustrated with this company because I have been short changed so much and that PIC time is so precious. Leaving the regional’s without PIC is playing roulette and I am older so I am playing with 3 bullets instead of one.

 

[norskman2]

I have searched Pinnacle on this board and have read virtually all that there is to read. I know; I shouldn’t have gone to Mesa in the first place. I am on the CRJ and they are only letting CRJ F.O.s upgrade on the CRJ. I was awarded a class date back in October. They canceled all upgrades along with all vacations and anything else that they could cancel to torture us.

If I get sent to upgrade I am facing reserve in ORD. I will be single digits from the bottom of the roster. At Mesa it is 8 days off in 28 (9 per month) for who knows how long. Our contract is amendable now but not in negotiations at all because management will not meet with or release our negotiating committee.

I have a friend who is a former Mesa pilot and he is in training. They awarded him captain almost immediately. He says that he thinks that the instant upgrade will continue at least for a few more months into the foreseeable future. With the Delta CRJ’s still coming and only 2 on property this could be an opportunity for me to go get the PIC time that I have been short changed out of at Mesa because they will not award me the ERJ (Clearly in violation of our contract. Folks a year to my junior are on it a PIC).



After speaking with my friend at Pinnacle he said he did not think that the failure rate is that high and most of the failures were folks who did not have a lot of CRJ time. I have 3000 Hrs. Is that the case?



One more day off and roughly the same pay as Mesa. Pulling reserve in DTW or pulling reserve at ORD. My buddy also told me that they have Ready Reserve but they don’t use it. 90 min callout at both companies. Commute to DTW just as easy as ORD. One more day off and no ready reserve. If they block my days off at two 3’s and two 2’s that will be a considerable improvement over Mesa. Do they block all of the reserve lines like this? What are the reserve schedules like? At Mesa I will be facing 6 on 1 off 1 -2 times per bid and plenty of Ready Reserve to go with it.
How much flight time could I expect to fly on reserve?


I don’t like being treated like crap but I can’t see it being any worse that the way I am going to be treated at Mesa.

We lost 69 pilots last month. We had to turn away about 2000 Hrs. of flying in ORD because we can’t staff it. SkyWest received that flying. We can’t get folks through IOE because we have about half the number of IOE Check Airmen that we started the year with. Add in that they are now scheduling IOE students for a whole bid with Check Airmen because the average time to get through IOE is over 80 Hrs. Add that to no new hires and it all equals BAD BAD BAD. They owe me nearly 15,000 in backed wages over the ERJ holdback and another 3K or so from the Harris Award. That along with 80M for Hawaii and Aloha has yet to stake their claim. Most of my friends at Mesa think that we have lost a code share or will pull completely out of United and send the planes to our new China operation. That is the system that I was awarded Captain. So where does that leave me? Applying to Pinnacle. Preparing my Resume today.

If I send it they may not interview me.

If they interview me they may not hire me.

If they hire me I may not go.

Just frustrated with this company because I have been short changed so much and that PIC time is so precious. Leaving the regional’s without PIC is playing roulette and I am older so I am playing with 3 bullets instead of one.

There are other places hiring street captains as well, like XJ and Big Sky. Why not try those also?

 

[Inconceivable]

The vast majority (I am told) of PCL recent upgrade failures are due to JUDGEMENT.

Do you know your FOM? Are you ready to be a captain, not just a pilot in the left seat? A lot of people don't realize the difference--and, to the credit of the APDs, don't make it.

 

[viper548]

If I were in your shoes I'd make the move

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

A-V-8, Sounds like you don't have a lot to lose by giving it a shot.

 

[XJohXJ]

Maybe take a look at Mesaba, also?

 

[scarlet]

Leave !!

 

[GOULET!]

Only reason I would be hesitant is are they going to pay you all of your back pay that you are entitled when you leave? If my company owed me almost $18k I would slap a lawsuit on them before I even showed up for work again. MESA truely is the scum of the industry.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Go to Sky west, they are better than any of what you are asking.

 

[A-V-8]

The vast majority (I am told) of PCL recent upgrade failures are due to JUDGEMENT.

The majority of captains that I fly with as a 3.5 year F.O. at Mesa have 15+ at this company. Without crossing a line of professionalism I have had to be the captain on more than one occasion for the whole bid. I really enjoyed flying here when I was new. I really enjoy flying with new captains but the ones that hold lines that I hold often have very good reasons to be here for 15+. I am certain that I am ready to be a Captain on the CRJ.

Do you know your FOM? Are you ready to be a captain, not just a pilot in the left seat? A lot of people don't realize the difference--and, to the credit of the APDs, don't make it.

FOM? APD's? What are they. We may call that something else.

Also maintenance at Mesa is a huge task for a Captain. I can’t imagine the processes being that much different but the forms and paperwork will be different. What do you guys think of that?

Thank you all for your responses so far. I am really pleased that the usual crap rhetoric is not here at least for now.

 

[PCL_128]

After speaking with my friend at Pinnacle he said he did not think that the failure rate is that high and most of the failures were folks who did not have a lot of CRJ time. I have 3000 Hrs. Is that the case?

Your friend is incorrect. The information on the sky-high failure rates is indeed true. That comes from friends that are checkairmen and working in the training department. One class of upgrades had over 80% fail at least one part of their training. This could be a career ender. I know Mesa is bad, but do you really want to risk ending your career just for a shot at the left seat at one of the worst regionals in the country? If you want out of Mesa, then go to Mesaba.

 

[A-V-8]

There are other places hiring street captains as well, like XJ and Big Sky. Why not try those also?

Unfortunately I burned the Big Sky bridge when I turned them down nearly a year ago. My name said Holdback for ERJ ATL. I thought it would be a month or so and they would be paying me captain pay as soon as someone Jr. to me went to class. What a mess. I was wrong on both accounts.

XJ who is that? I am nervous about being captain on a plane that I have never flown. Being a captain is a lot more than just being a stud on the flight controls.

 

[norskman2]

XJ who is that?

Mesaba

 

[Pilot124]

Should you leave mesa?


Does a one legged duck swim in circles?

Are the Kennedy's gun shy?


The answer is YES!!!!
Leave immediatly.

 

[samballs]

I have searched Pinnacle on this board and have read virtually all that there is to read. I know; I shouldn’t have gone to Mesa in the first place. I am on the CRJ and they are only letting CRJ F.O.s upgrade on the CRJ. I was awarded a class date back in October. They canceled all upgrades along with all vacations and anything else that they could cancel to torture us.

If I get sent to upgrade I am facing reserve in ORD. I will be single digits from the bottom of the roster. At Mesa it is 8 days off in 28 (9 per month) for who knows how long. Our contract is amendable now but not in negotiations at all because management will not meet with or release our negotiating committee.

I have a friend who is a former Mesa pilot and he is in training. They awarded him captain almost immediately. He says that he thinks that the instant upgrade will continue at least for a few more months into the foreseeable future. With the Delta CRJ’s still coming and only 2 on property this could be an opportunity for me to go get the PIC time that I have been short changed out of at Mesa because they will not award me the ERJ (Clearly in violation of our contract. Folks a year to my junior are on it a PIC).



After speaking with my friend at Pinnacle he said he did not think that the failure rate is that high and most of the failures were folks who did not have a lot of CRJ time. I have 3000 Hrs. Is that the case?



One more day off and roughly the same pay as Mesa. Pulling reserve in DTW or pulling reserve at ORD. My buddy also told me that they have Ready Reserve but they don’t use it. 90 min callout at both companies. Commute to DTW just as easy as ORD. One more day off and no ready reserve. If they block my days off at two 3’s and two 2’s that will be a considerable improvement over Mesa. Do they block all of the reserve lines like this? What are the reserve schedules like? At Mesa I will be facing 6 on 1 off 1 -2 times per bid and plenty of Ready Reserve to go with it.
How much flight time could I expect to fly on reserve?


I don’t like being treated like crap but I can’t see it being any worse that the way I am going to be treated at Mesa.

We lost 69 pilots last month. We had to turn away about 2000 Hrs. of flying in ORD because we can’t staff it. SkyWest received that flying. We can’t get folks through IOE because we have about half the number of IOE Check Airmen that we started the year with. Add in that they are now scheduling IOE students for a whole bid with Check Airmen because the average time to get through IOE is over 80 Hrs. Add that to no new hires and it all equals BAD BAD BAD. They owe me nearly 15,000 in backed wages over the ERJ holdback and another 3K or so from the Harris Award. That along with 80M for Hawaii and Aloha has yet to stake their claim. Most of my friends at Mesa think that we have lost a code share or will pull completely out of United and send the planes to our new China operation. That is the system that I was awarded Captain. So where does that leave me? Applying to Pinnacle. Preparing my Resume today.

If I send it they may not interview me.

If they interview me they may not hire me.

If they hire me I may not go.

Just frustrated with this company because I have been short changed so much and that PIC time is so precious. Leaving the regional’s without PIC is playing roulette and I am older so I am playing with 3 bullets instead of one.

So your willing to go from one place we all warned you not too, to another place we all say, stay away from. Your post reads in way that says you think your entilted to PIC spot, but that not changing plane stuff has been going on there for a while.

Maybe you should wait your turn and suffer with the rest of the pilot group that voted that contract in. You also say you dont want to be at the bottom of the CAPT List, well at PNCL you always will be if hired as a street capt. Sounds like to me you make bad choices and try to fix those choices with worse choices. Good luck go for it.

 

[samballs]

How long have you been at Mesa? If not long, then why do you feel like you're ready to be a capt on the CRJ, in my experience The older guys that are new make bad choices because they like to think everything out when there is no time to think, just time to do what experience tells you to do.

 

[A-V-8]

How long have you been at Mesa? If not long, then why do you feel like you're ready to be a capt on the CRJ

3.5 Years. 3000 on the CRJ. I am ready for Cpt. on the CRJ.

I didn’t vote the last contract.

The contract says that I have the right to go the ERJ. Company will not let me. Grieve it? I did!

Fix a bad decision with another bad decision? Point well taken. Being on the bottom of the Pinnacle list will be the same is being on the bottom of the Mesa list in my opinion. That is not a big deal to me.

Entitled to PIC. Well my seniority dictates that I have the right to go to the training center and try. I am not entitled to the left seat of an ERJ. I am entitled to go to the training center and try. So what should I do about that? Sue. Oooops. Can't sue the company but I can sue the union. Well I probably will not sue the union.

Not every post here advises me against going to Pinnacle. Just 2 so far.

 

[A-V-8]

You also say you dont want to be at the bottom of the CAPT List, well at PNCL you always will be if hired as a street capt.

No I did not say that.

Thank you for your response. Points well taken.

What would you do if you were me?

 

[PCL_128]

Not every post here advises me against going to Pinnacle. Just 2 so far.

I think it's important for you to note that the posts from people telling you to go to Pinnacle are from people who don't work there and haven't worked there. Go to Mesaba.

 

[sinkrate]

Making a lateral move is always a tough call. If there are personal reasons involved, like ending an awful commute to be at home, it will generaly tilt to making the move. If you are contemplating it simply for career progression it is a lot dicier. Maybe it will work. Maybe it won't.

Mesaba is going to see a lot of growth in the next year. From a start of 51 SF3's they will end up with those SF3's plus 36 CRJ 900's and 15 CRJ 200 LR's. Most betting people think their fleet will end up a lot bigger than that before NW spins them of in an IPO.

Where is PCL headed? The 15 CRJ 200's Mesaba is receiving will come from PCL's fleet. The 900's PCL is adding will result in no net expansion for PCL. PCL is two years into section 6 negotaitions and in the middle of taking a strike vote.

Which carrier do you think has the brighter future over the next few years?

The training at PCL won't help the pilots that show up with problems to fix. If you are good you will get through it OK. PCL no longer puts pilots straight into the left seat. You must complete initial training as an FO and then log 100 hours in the right seat at PCL before you can start CA training. Figure 2 months for initial training, 2 months to log 100 hours and then another two months to complete upgrade and OE, minimum. Altogether you are looking at 6 to 9 months before you log your first hour of PIC. I don't know what the drill is at XJ to get to the left seat of a CRJ.

I hope that helps and good luck.