Short runway

[sinkrate]

If the pilots were not to blame, good management will not penalize them. If they were to blame, they should be penalized/terminated. The only reason for a union is if management is bad, which I suspect is not the case at Flex. And we all know unions protect the worst pilots among us.

A retired NTSB accident investigator taught me years ago

-If you are ever involved in an accident or incident every organization involved will use everything they can discover to blame the crew. The monetary stakes are very high.
-The manufacturer will never admit their AC is faulty
-The company will never admit their training or maintenence was inadequate
-The FAA will never admit their oversight or requirements were inadequate
-The airport operator will never admit they lied about the runway conditions - FICONS (MKE has been caught doing that - repeatedly)

Every organization with a finacial stake in the findings will want to blame the pilots and wash their hands of it - including the company the pilots work for. When a NTSB investigator tells you the only friend you will have is your union - you might want to listen. In the many years since he told me that I have witnessed it first hand several times.

 

[jonjuan]

A retired NTSB accident investigator taught me years ago

-If you are ever involved in an accident or incident every organization involved will use everything they can discover to blame the crew. The monetary stakes are very high.
-The manufacturer will never admit their AC is faulty
-The company will never admit their training or maintenence was inadequate
-The FAA will never admit their oversight or requirements were inadequate
-The airport operator will never admit they lied about the runway conditions - FICONS (MKE has been caught doing that - repeatedly)

Every organization with a finacial stake in the findings will want to blame the pilots and wash their hands of it - including the company the pilots work for. When a NTSB investigator tells you the only friend you will have is your union - you might want to listen. In the many years since he told me that I have witnessed it first hand several times.

Isn't the vast majority of accidents attributable to pilot error?

 

[G4dude]

Wow. Just wow.

I've read most of your posts G and find that you are (usually) fairly well balanced in your opposing views to union representation.

But this statement, assuming it wasn't intended purely as flame bait, is ignorant.

Sorry, I didn't mean it to be flamebait. I just don't like how unions will sometimes go to bat for a pilot who needs to be doing something else with his life. I am not saying everything unions do is bad.

 

[SDCFI]

Sorry, I didn't mean it to be flamebait. I just don't like how unions will sometimes go to bat for a pilot who needs to be doing something else with his life. I am not saying everything unions do is bad.

I'm all for weeding out bad pilots, but not at the expense of the good ones. Just like our justice system sometimes an OJ gets off, but we provide for an equal defense opportunity for all so that hopefully innocent people aren't put away. Flexjet has generally taken care of its people, however an incident like this regardless of how it happened brings negative publicity, and if I were one of the crew I would sure like some form of personal protection should the company decide to seek punitive action.

 

[brokeflyer]

Isn't the vast majority of accidents attributable to pilot error?

yes, when a wing falls off - "....was caused by the pilot in command's inability to control the aircraft one wing inoperative....."

 

[CL300Pilot]

I find it amusing how people have already convicted two pilots and management over something that only a few people have all of the details about.

 

[4mr72drvr]

I find it amusing how people have already convicted two pilots and management over something that only a few people have all of the details about.

Quite true. I would love to know the reported weather and the reported runway conditions (including who generated the report; vehicle or aircraft).

 

[DirtyBeech]

I'd like to know about previous duty days. One crewmember is a well known whipping boy.

 

[CALRepublic]

I'd like to know about previous duty days. One crewmember is a well known whipping boy.

what the hell is that suppose to mean??? he does his job without bitching?

bad comment bro

 

[DirtyBeech]

Does his job without bitching? Yeah, let's just say you're remarkably off base and uninformed with regard to that situation. As it turns out, it looks like he had an easy day before the incident which is shocking in and off itself. His name is synonymous with a week long beat down on the road.

 

[HalinTexas]

-If you are ever involved in an accident or incident every organization involved will use everything they can discover to blame the crew. The monetary stakes are very high.
-The manufacturer will never admit their AC is faulty
-The company will never admit their training or maintenence was inadequate
-The FAA will never admit their oversight or requirements were inadequate
-The airport operator will never admit they lied about the runway conditions - FICONS (MKE has been caught doing that - repeatedly)

-Pilots never admit they were wrong.

 

[sinkrate]

-Pilots never admit they were wrong.

True - but they a rarely the sole cause of an accident/incident.

 

[OHGOON]

-Pilots never admit they were wrong.

There are many cases where pilots have and will admit that they were wrong.

The problem arises when the words "Pilot error" becomes the default bin of choice when an the industry is not willing or able to identify the underlying causes.