Short runway

[captold]

Too bad about the Flex Jet Lear that over ran the runway at CGF on Monday. Glad no one got hurt. Wonder what protection the crew has without a union backing them up?

 

[J3guy]

Too bad about the Flex Jet Lear that over ran the runway at CGF on Monday. Glad no one got hurt. Wonder what protection the crew has without a union backing them up?

Well aren't you an idiot.

 

[CALRepublic]

1st- you're using this incident/accident for union propaganda. Not cool man

2nd- yes, this would be a case where having a union would be a good thing, and I'm fortunate to have one because that could very well be me someday

 

[Newkem]

Too bad about the Flex Jet Lear that over ran the runway at CGF on Monday. Glad no one got hurt. Wonder what protection the crew has without a union backing them up?

Link? Source?

Dick?

 

[G4dude]

Too bad about the Flex Jet Lear that over ran the runway at CGF on Monday. Glad no one got hurt. Wonder what protection the crew has without a union backing them up?

If the pilots were not to blame, good management will not penalize them. If they were to blame, they should be penalized/terminated. The only reason for a union is if management is bad, which I suspect is not the case at Flex. And we all know unions protect the worst pilots among us.

 

[CALRepublic]

If the pilots were not to blame, good management will not penalize them. If they were to blame, they should be penalized/terminated. The only reason for a union is if management is bad, which I suspect is not the case at Flex. And we all know unions protect the worst pilots among us.

G4 and the hard core union guys we have in this forum remind me of the Israelis and Palestinians.

Someone throws a rock or fires a shot and the cease-fire gets broken... Here Mr. G4 just threw a rock at an Israeli tank ( or in this case a union tank)

As for the rest of us, go grab a beer and wait for the fireworks. This is going to be a good one

 

[DUATS]

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/03/plane_skids_off_runway_at_cuya.html

Guess there is no reason to wait for the professionals at the NTSB to make a statement. The Sheriff's department is apparently now expert at all things aviation.

 

[gutshotdraw]

If the pilots were not to blame, good management will not penalize them. If they were to blame, they should be penalized/terminated. The only reason for a union is if management is bad, which I suspect is not the case at Flex. And we all know unions protect the worst pilots among us.

:bomb:


Facepalm amigo. Facepalm.

 

[brokeflyer]

that airport sucks, im amazed more of us dont go off the end. I almost did it in a lear 35 years ago.

 

[OHGOON]

...And we all know unions protect the worst pilots among us.

Which is undoubtedly why you still have your job.

 

[SCT]

Glad no one is hurt.

 

[gret]

Too bad about the Flex Jet Lear that over ran the runway at CGF on Monday. Glad no one got hurt. Wonder what protection the crew has without a union backing them up?

Classy...real classy....

After all of 6 posts, this is all you have to offer?

Congratulations that you love paying union dues and believe they are going to save your sorry ass.

 

[Praetorian]

Forget about how this ^^ union-buster tries to twist things around.

Fact is, without a union, these two pilots are out there, on their own in dealing with this problem. My heart goes out to them. There but for the grace of god go each of us.

 

[Pattern-Master]

That was one of the dumbest articles i've read in a long time, not including anything about the government of course.

 

[ProFracPilot]

If the pilots were not to blame, good management will not penalize them. If they were to blame, they should be penalized/terminated. The only reason for a union is if management is bad, which I suspect is not the case at Flex. And we all know unions protect the worst pilots among us.

Wow. Just wow.

I've read most of your posts G and find that you are (usually) fairly well balanced in your opposing views to union representation.

But this statement, assuming it wasn't intended purely as flame bait, is ignorant.

 

[sinkrate]

If the pilots were not to blame, good management will not penalize them. If they were to blame, they should be penalized/terminated. The only reason for a union is if management is bad, which I suspect is not the case at Flex. And we all know unions protect the worst pilots among us.

A retired NTSB accident investigator taught me years ago

-If you are ever involved in an accident or incident every organization involved will use everything they can discover to blame the crew. The monetary stakes are very high.
-The manufacturer will never admit their AC is faulty
-The company will never admit their training or maintenence was inadequate
-The FAA will never admit their oversight or requirements were inadequate
-The airport operator will never admit they lied about the runway conditions - FICONS (MKE has been caught doing that - repeatedly)

Every organization with a finacial stake in the findings will want to blame the pilots and wash their hands of it - including the company the pilots work for. When a NTSB investigator tells you the only friend you will have is your union - you might want to listen. In the many years since he told me that I have witnessed it first hand several times.

 

[jonjuan]

A retired NTSB accident investigator taught me years ago

-If you are ever involved in an accident or incident every organization involved will use everything they can discover to blame the crew. The monetary stakes are very high.
-The manufacturer will never admit their AC is faulty
-The company will never admit their training or maintenence was inadequate
-The FAA will never admit their oversight or requirements were inadequate
-The airport operator will never admit they lied about the runway conditions - FICONS (MKE has been caught doing that - repeatedly)

Every organization with a finacial stake in the findings will want to blame the pilots and wash their hands of it - including the company the pilots work for. When a NTSB investigator tells you the only friend you will have is your union - you might want to listen. In the many years since he told me that I have witnessed it first hand several times.

Isn't the vast majority of accidents attributable to pilot error?

 

[G4dude]

Wow. Just wow.

I've read most of your posts G and find that you are (usually) fairly well balanced in your opposing views to union representation.

But this statement, assuming it wasn't intended purely as flame bait, is ignorant.

Sorry, I didn't mean it to be flamebait. I just don't like how unions will sometimes go to bat for a pilot who needs to be doing something else with his life. I am not saying everything unions do is bad.

 

[SDCFI]

Sorry, I didn't mean it to be flamebait. I just don't like how unions will sometimes go to bat for a pilot who needs to be doing something else with his life. I am not saying everything unions do is bad.

I'm all for weeding out bad pilots, but not at the expense of the good ones. Just like our justice system sometimes an OJ gets off, but we provide for an equal defense opportunity for all so that hopefully innocent people aren't put away. Flexjet has generally taken care of its people, however an incident like this regardless of how it happened brings negative publicity, and if I were one of the crew I would sure like some form of personal protection should the company decide to seek punitive action.

 

[brokeflyer]

Isn't the vast majority of accidents attributable to pilot error?

yes, when a wing falls off - "....was caused by the pilot in command's inability to control the aircraft one wing inoperative....."

 

[CL300Pilot]

I find it amusing how people have already convicted two pilots and management over something that only a few people have all of the details about.

 

[4mr72drvr]

I find it amusing how people have already convicted two pilots and management over something that only a few people have all of the details about.

Quite true. I would love to know the reported weather and the reported runway conditions (including who generated the report; vehicle or aircraft).

 

[DirtyBeech]

I'd like to know about previous duty days. One crewmember is a well known whipping boy.

 

[CALRepublic]

I'd like to know about previous duty days. One crewmember is a well known whipping boy.

what the hell is that suppose to mean??? he does his job without bitching?

bad comment bro

 

[DirtyBeech]

Does his job without bitching? Yeah, let's just say you're remarkably off base and uninformed with regard to that situation. As it turns out, it looks like he had an easy day before the incident which is shocking in and off itself. His name is synonymous with a week long beat down on the road.

 

[HalinTexas]

-If you are ever involved in an accident or incident every organization involved will use everything they can discover to blame the crew. The monetary stakes are very high.
-The manufacturer will never admit their AC is faulty
-The company will never admit their training or maintenence was inadequate
-The FAA will never admit their oversight or requirements were inadequate
-The airport operator will never admit they lied about the runway conditions - FICONS (MKE has been caught doing that - repeatedly)

-Pilots never admit they were wrong.

 

[sinkrate]

-Pilots never admit they were wrong.

True - but they a rarely the sole cause of an accident/incident.

 

[OHGOON]

-Pilots never admit they were wrong.

There are many cases where pilots have and will admit that they were wrong.

The problem arises when the words "Pilot error" becomes the default bin of choice when an the industry is not willing or able to identify the underlying causes.