Senority issues ATA/AWA/AirTran

[The5th]

Let's assume that either AirTran or AWA buys and takes over some or all of ATA's assets, including their pilots. What are some of the possible pilot senority issues? Any language referencing this in the respective pilot union contracts?

 

[Ty Webb]

This is a stupid assumption. AirTran has only offered to buy gates and slots, not airplanes. Seniority is not a factor in this scenario. Don;t get your panties in a wad unless there is a real reaosn to.

If AWA were to come up with some money to buy ATA, then you might have a valid question to ask, but right now, it is just mental masturbation.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

This is a stupid assumption. AirTran has only offered to buy gates and slots, not airplanes. Seniority is not a factor in this scenario. Don;t get your panties in a wad unless there is a real reaosn to.

If AWA were to come up with some money to buy ATA, then you might have a valid question to ask, but right now, it is just mental masturbation.

Dam Ty who pi$$ed in your corn flakes this morning??? It was just a question...

The5th,

According to the ALPA merger policy the seniority lists are supposed to be done based on D.O.H. Here is where you run into problems with this thing.
1. Each of us has the opportunity to APPLY to the air carrier we wish to work for. If carrier A get's into financial trouble and carrier B comes and saves the day should the failed carriers pilots be allowed to take their place on the new companys list?? Well No!!!! I do think that any and all positions should be filled with those employees but never at the expense of those already on the list of company B.

2. If you were a police Lt in NY, should you be allowed to move to Los Angeles and assume that same rank?? Of course not!!! Well the same should be true here.

No one benefits from these seniority intergrations and they most certainly cause desention among the group.

Now with that said, let the flamers flame!!

WD.

 

[Pickle]

Wiskey Driver:



Is that a reference to Air Wisconsin, did you fly for Air Wisconsin in the past?

 

[holdon]

Dam Ty who pi$$ed in your corn flakes this morning??? It was just a question...

The5th,

According to the ALPA merger policy the seniority lists are supposed to be done based on D.O.H. Here is where you run into problems with this thing.
1. Each of us has the opportunity to APPLY to the air carrier we wish to work for. If carrier A get's into financial trouble and carrier B comes and saves the day should the failed carriers pilots be allowed to take their place on the new companys list?? Well No!!!! I do think that any and all positions should be filled with those employees but never at the expense of those already on the list of company B.

2. If you were a police Lt in NY, should you be allowed to move to Los Angeles and assume that same rank?? Of course not!!! Well the same should be true here.

No one benefits from these seniority intergrations and they most certainly cause desention among the group.

Now with that said, let the flamers flame!!

WD.

Enough of this Bull$hit. When are pilots going to start treating pilots better. I've never seen a more Back stabbing, ego centric, It's all about me attitude, bunch of "professionals" in my life. I'm embarrassed to be associated with losers like this. "my airline is going to buy your airline, and my daddy is bigger than your daddy" "No sir, my airline is going to buy your airline first"

There should have been one seniority list years ago. If your airline is unfortunate enough to be bought by another than you acquire the Pilots (and there experience) on a date of hire contingency.

 

[TWA Dude]

If carrier A get's into financial trouble and carrier B comes and saves the day should the failed carriers pilots be allowed to take their place on the new companys list?? Well No!!!! I do think that any and all positions should be filled with those employees but never at the expense of those already on the list of company B.

Gotta disagree with you there. A pilot's worth shouldn't depend on the finiancial health of his employer. Stapling the other carriers pilots amounts to a windfall and that's unethical. Should it come to pass I would be more than willing to give up some of my seniority to the ATA pilots. I know what it's like to be lectured to "just be glad you have a job" and I shall not tell that to anyone else!

 

[CaptSeth]

You AWA guys are OK. Hopefully everything will work out for all involved parties.

 

[Jetjockey]

Wait until the government gives away the proverbial store with cabotage. I can see it now, Air China pilots willing to fly for 50% less than any US pilot group rates. UGLY.. !!! We'd have better gotten our "unity" down by then, or we are really screwed.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Wiskey Driver:



Is that a reference to Air Wisconsin, did you fly for Air Wisconsin in the past?

No it's not and yes I did.

WD.

 

[reepicheep]

To clarify - ALPA merger policy is not DOH, it's an attempt at a negotiated settlement between the two parties taking various factors into account.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Gotta disagree with you there. A pilot's worth shouldn't depend on the finiancial health of his employer. Stapling the other carriers pilots amounts to a windfall and that's unethical. Should it come to pass I would be more than willing to give up some of my seniority to the ATA pilots. I know what it's like to be lectured to "just be glad you have a job" and I shall not tell that to anyone else!

You know, I agree with Holdon in one respect and that is we should have 1 industry seniority list. Then it would be fair based on DOH but since we don't have one why should I be willing to give up my spot for someone else who works or worked for another carrier??? Now I don't want to sound calus and I really hope that I don't but I too have mouths to feed and bills to pay just like the other guy. I too have a career expectation that could be forever changed due to an intergration like this. Should purchasing company take ALL of purchased companys pilots HE11 YES but should those same people be allowed to undermind my career expectation?? NO!!! This business is one big gamble, we all knew that comming in but just like gambling we can't say give me my money back when it doesn't work our way.

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

To clarify - ALPA merger policy is not DOH, it's an attempt at a negotiated settlement between the two parties taking various factors into account.

See I had bad info!!! Oh well I guess that's what I get for listening to others


WD.

 

[mt2]

This is a stupid assumption. AirTran has only offered to buy gates and slots, not airplanes. Seniority is not a factor in this scenario. Don;t get your panties in a wad unless there is a real reaosn to.

If AWA were to come up with some money to buy ATA, then you might have a valid question to ask, but right now, it is just mental masturbation.

Not stupid at all. Actually, ATA pilots have a frag clause which is supposed to protect our pilots in the event of transfer of aircraft OR routes. And seeing how AAI is purchasing our MDW hub and routes (read: gate leases and other slots) the clause SHOULD kick in. As written we would come over with seniority as determined in the Allegheny LLP's. Then there's the Mayor Daley thing about protecting employees. I won't try to predict how this will shake out but I suspect all this is negotiable - much like the rest of ATA's bankruptcy.

Never say never Ty.

 

[JetMonkey]

I do wish all the ATA guys and gals the best. It just seems that most mergers don't pan out too well. The Morris Air guys did pretty good and the Reno Air guys made out like a bandit (although it was just a few hundred pilots which made it easier I'm sure) but, Republic/Northwest, Western/Delta, TWA/American, these mergers were not too kind to the aquiring pilots. Some guys with more knowledge on those can jump in and elaborate.

 

[MW44]

Alpa merger policy is definitely not date of hire. It should be available on your alpa home page if you're interested.

 

[English]

What exactly are the Allegheny-Mohawk provisions in relation to seniority integration?

 

[AA717driver]

Western/Delta and NW/Republic should not even be mentioned in the same breath as TWA/AA.

W/D and N/R went DOH. The Republic guys got some restrictions off existing NW airplanes but an equal shot at new aircraft. Western got a hell of a deal considering they were in severe financial difficulties at the time.

Try Delta/PanAm AA/TWA or AA/RNO(they got stapled and booted out of their captains seats) if you want to name $h!tty integrations.TC

P.S.--ALPA merger policy hasn't been worth the paper it's written on since Delta/PanAm.

 

[Ty Webb]

Not stupid at all. Actually, ATA pilots have a frag clause which is supposed to protect our pilots in the event of transfer of aircraft OR routes. And seeing how AAI is purchasing our MDW hub and routes (read: gate leases and other slots) the clause SHOULD kick in. As written we would come over with seniority as determined in the Allegheny LLP's. Then there's the Mayor Daley thing about protecting employees. I won't try to predict how this will shake out but I suspect all this is negotiable - much like the rest of ATA's bankruptcy.

Never say never Ty.

My point is that our management has decided to pay money to assume your lease agreements with the city of Chicago, and buy some slots out of DCA and LGA.

This is not a merger. It is not an acquisition. It is simply buying some gates and some slots, and therefore, doesn't even come close to something resembling a merger or a buyout.

I know it sucks for you guys, but the reality of it is thatthis is not a merger or buyout. The good news is that at least it keeps you guys busy for a while, in the event that you have to find other employment. There are a lot of guys on the street that didn;t even get that "heads up" call.

 

[Pickle]

Ty Webb said: "The good news is that at least it keeps you guys busy for a while,"

How magnanimous of you.

 

[Jetjockey]

Ty was obviously born without the empathy gene. Don't worry Ty nothing bad will ever happen to AirTran, and you career will bullet-proof. Why should you worry about the livlihood of others? Screw them! Right???????