Seniority list at the new AA?

[General Lee]

I forget, wasn't that arbitration an internal "union" process, which even though is was supposedly binding, even the president of such esteemed organization tried to get the parties to negotiate away from such?

I would think that an internal process is different from a federal mandated one, say like with a brokerage house or something.......... So yes if US had stayed alpa, it would be binding.....but Poof, alpa was gone (even though the west said it would never happen, east didn't have the votes) Sorta like BK laws and being able to abrograte contracts almost at will.......

I see, you think it's ok for corporations to stretch contract law, but not individuals?

I could be wrong,,,,,,

Didn't the company agree to it too? Are any of them still around? Yup. You forgot about the other agreeing party. Poof, there goes USAPA.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Draginass]

Not just no, but HELL NO!!!! It is not ok for corporations to stretch contract law!! Are you stupid??? And it is not ok for a union either. The RLA says that agreements are inherited. Thus, management may not change the corporate name and abrogate a contract or renege on shareholder obligations. Neither can a union. And it is high time the courts biotch slap the scumbags who are trying to do just that.

Riggghttt. I guess we'll find out in a year or two when the AA/US Air SLI goes to the arbitrators.

I don't think the APA is going to want to inherit USAPA's dirty laundry. They're going let it go to arbitration and make the arbitrators decide on which US Air list to use.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I forget, wasn't that arbitration an internal "union" process, which even though is was supposedly binding, even the president of such esteemed organization tried to get the parties to negotiate away from such?

I would think that an internal process is different from a federal mandated one, say like with a brokerage house or something.......... So yes if US had stayed alpa, it would be binding.....but Poof, alpa was gone (even though the west said it would never happen, east didn't have the votes) Sorta like BK laws and being able to abrograte contracts almost at will.......

I see, you think it's ok for corporations to stretch contract law, but not individuals?

I could be wrong,,,,,,

You are. There is no variably binding arbitration based on who is involved. The parties have not changed, only the representitives (ALPA->USAPA). Changing the union didn't matter, nor did ginning up a constitution that prohibits the results of the arbitration after the fact.

What has sheltered USAPA from paying the price for their misdeeds has been their failure to deliver a contract that cements their DOH scheme. They have been able to steal the west pilot's rightful benefits of the merger by delaying doing anything. No one has forced their hand through a representation election, so apparently all the parties are OK with USAPA's theft (litigation notwithstanding). Frankly that's what baffles me. USAPA will not find a willing accomplice in the APA to continue their theft, so they will either find additional ways to continue to delay or they will proffer a base fence that accomplishes the same thing without the threat of more DFR suits.

A more likely scenario is that the APA does what it wants after Single Carrier is determined (expedited no doubt). Prior to that APA will copy from the USAPA playbook and drag it's feet until it can deal unilaterally.

You demanded no accountability from USAPA, so you should expect no truth from their leaders.

 

[fam62c]

Even if the Nic award gets implemented would it necessarily matter in the long run? The next arbitrator could decide to go to something closer to DOH for the whole American list and basically reverse the Nic award with a new award that supersedes it.

The Nic award puts many newer DOH pilots at west above pilots at East with older DOH. That may be fine for that side because the award legitimately arbitrated over there but will the next arbitrator put newer DOH west pilots in front of older DOH American pilots? There's a chance that eventually the Nic award will not matter system-wide after the next arbitration except to the extent that Airways exists behind a fence for some period of time. The American pilots have the numbers (just like the west pilots did) and will make every effort to protect their interests. I don't expect them to look any more kindly on a solution that strays far from DOH than the West pilots did. In the end I see the west pilots ending up on the big list somewhere near DOH. Is that fair?.........who knows what fair is in this crazy industry.

 

[TWA Dude]

Even if the Nic award gets implemented would it necessarily matter in the long run?

Yes. Integrity always matters -- regardless of seniority.

In the end I see the west pilots ending up on the big list somewhere near DOH. Is that fair?.........who knows what fair is in this crazy industry.

Your scenarios are irrelevant because there will never be agreement on what constitutes a fair integration. All we can hope for is a fair process by which the SLI is achieved. Arbitration is the only way and any effort to circumvent it is abhorrent.

 

[Draginass]

Even if the Nic award gets implemented would it necessarily matter in the long run? The next arbitrator could decide to go to something closer to DOH for the whole American list and basically reverse the Nic award with a new award that supersedes it.

The Nic award puts many newer DOH pilots at west above pilots at East with older DOH. That may be fine for that side because the award legitimately arbitrated over there but will the next arbitrator put newer DOH west pilots in front of older DOH American pilots? There's a chance that eventually the Nic award will not matter system-wide after the next arbitration except to the extent that Airways exists behind a fence for some period of time. The American pilots have the numbers (just like the west pilots did) and will make every effort to protect their interests. I don't expect them to look any more kindly on a solution that strays far from DOH than the West pilots did. In the end I see the west pilots ending up on the big list somewhere near DOH. Is that fair?.........who knows what fair is in this crazy industry.

My guess is that the arbitrators will not weight heavily "DOH." I think relative seniority, some fences, and taking into account the 5:1 disparity in widebodies will be the core principles of an arbitration. It'll be much more like NWA/DAL. And that's where the problem lies. What SL does USAPA slide across the table to the arbitrators?

Again, there's no WAY the APA is going to touch USAPA's legal morass. USAPA has to clean it's own house first.

 

[PGTB]

What are the chances that this makes the merge fall apart before it even happens?

 

[General Lee]

What are the chances that this makes the merge fall apart before it even happens?

I think ZERO. The creditors want their money, and so does management. It will happen regardless. But, Parker wants integration for this merger, and he will probably FORCE USAPA to act, and that would mean the NIC....... You can run but you can't hide USAPA!!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ERfly]

Why is Leonidas paying all this money for lawyers? Just let General Lee do it. I mean as a supposed Delta first officer, he's a subject-matter expert on the goings on at US Airways.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Draginass]

What are the chances that this makes the merge fall apart before it even happens?

The merger will happen no matter what USAPA does or doesn't do. They don't have nearly the horsepower to stop it. Heck, they've already voted for it.

The SLI, will no doubt, go to arbitration. USAPA or Leonides, can pitch a hissy, but it's going to happen. After the final SLI arbitration, the decision will come down and, whomever "they" is, is going to be told to take the pay raise, sit down and STFU, or leave.