Seniority dispute ends at US Airways

[Cowboy75]

I have been a member for about 6 years. Just don't post to much.

Sorry Charlie, I apologize for associating you with Nic. You don't want that title.

 

[Cowboy75]

Phoenix Domicile Update

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Is this good for the pilots or is it politics?​

Your PHX reps held a local domicile meeting on Tuesday, August 31st. And, to nobody's surprise, what should have been a normal event was again turned into yet another overly-dramatic political fight.
As everyone knows by now, USAPA is composed of local domicile representatives, which sit on the governing board known as the Board of Pilot Representatives, or BPR for short. Theoretically, this board is supposed to provide direction to the union’s four National Officers, who also have assigned duties and areas of responsibility.
The Secretary-Treasurer and the recently-elected Executive Vice President had asked your PHX representatives if they could attend our next domicile meeting for a couple of reasons. All National Officers are always welcome to attend any local meeting. As a matter of fact, it would be nice if a couple of the Officers would take the time to come out and meet some of the PHX pilots. The first and most important reason is just to simply get to meet and know some of the PHX USAPA members. Since we have never had a BPR meeting in PHX there has been little chance for interaction. Also, there have been plenty of questions lately about the "reconciliation" and other billing issues that the S/T could answer. We also believe that the new EVP should get to know some of the pilots that he represents, provide us with a briefing and also answer some questions related to the duties of his office.
These two gentlemen did make the effort and traveled all the way out to PHX to attend the meeting on Tuesday. However, on Tuesday morning, about 30 minutes prior to the start of the meeting, the EVP and S/T walked into the hotel and stated that they had been told that they were not allowed to attend the PHX domicile meeting. When we questioned them as to who had told them they could not attend (or why), we were told that they would not talk about it, nor would they give any more details. One thing that we can tell you is that these gentlemen were not happy about being denied access to the PHX pilots.
Later that afternoon, David sent an e-mail to the BPR informing them of this situation. In addition, David called most of the other board members for their opinion on the matter, and he also left a voice message for both the President and the Vice President. As of Monday, no one had responded at all to the e-mail. The calls that were made were well received with the exception of one. But, no one knew anything about whom or why a National Officer would be denied access to the PHX pilots. The Vice President did return the call but said that he did not prevent these two other officers from attending the meeting, though he did STRONGLY recommend against going. Since David has not heard from the President, we do not know what his reply would be. By connecting the dots it can be guessed that if the board members did not know about it, and the Vice President did not order it, there remains only one person with any perceived authority to direct two other (also directly elected) National Officers from attending a domicile meeting.
Your PHX reps find this denial completely unacceptable. We can only imagine what the reaction would be if National Officers were not allowed to attend an East meeting. The excuse we have heard (from the Vice President) was, "because there is litigation ongoing, these Officers should not answer questions about seniority." This is ridiculous, as they were only there to meet the pilots and answer questions in the areas of their expertise and duties. Using the excuse that "litigation is ongoing" in order to deny services or access to union officials is wrong. Your representatives are a bit baffled by this statement, as USAPA Communications has made it abundantly and repeatedly clear that the Addington litigation was found "not ripe," and as if it never even happened. In fact, Addington has been characterized as "a legal nullity" by USAPA. So we are not sure what litigation was being referenced.
If the Company's case was the litigation being cited, well, both the West pilots and USAPA are co-defendants in that suit, so we do not know how preventing these Officers from attending our domicile meeting could possibly harm the DOH quest. The duty to represent ALL pilots does not pause, end or suspend while a court case works its way through the system. Of course, you would think that the uppermost leadership of USAPA would understand that running a union is not exclusively about achieving date-of-hire by now, but apparently that is not the case.
Well it appears that the transformation is now complete. IN OUR OPINION, USAPA has gone from the stated concept of a true "line pilot union" to a complete dictatorship in only 29 months. An e-mail was sent out on Tuesday evening informing the rest of the board that a serious overreaching of power had occurred. That some, as of yet unknown, union official had dictated that two other National Officers not be allowed to attend a PHX meeting. So far there has been NO response to this breach. The phone messages that were left with other BPR members have likewise gone unanswered. The President, now many days later, has yet to return a call to the PHX Domicile Chairman. From the lack of response and outrage we can only assume that a majority of the Board accepts this and has handed over the governing power to a single man.
We ask all US Airways pilots these questions: Is that what you wanted when you voted for USAPA? Are you willing to allow a single person to dictate the direction and action of your union? Is it acceptable for one elected official to ignore and violate the rights of other elected officials? Is USAPA still ONLY about DOH?
If you do not find this behavior acceptable, then we have to ask you: what are you going to do about it?
David Braid
PHX Chairman

 

[Guppiedriver]

Says the greedy west pilot. So tell me, how will it feel to be put on that special list when USAPA strikes? How do you think other airlines will look at you? How about ALPA? Think it through first.

I will never cross any picket line. That said, USAPA will never get released, so the argument is moot.

 

[get2flyin]

Says the greedy west pilot. So tell me, how will it feel to be put on that special list when USAPA strikes? How do you think other airlines will look at you? How about ALPA? Think it through first.

You USAPIANs take yourselves so seriously that you actually think you are regarded as a legitimate pilot's union. Aw, that's so cute. I grew up in a non-aviation, union family so it would kill my parents if I crossed a REAL picket line. However, do you really think doing so would get West pilots on ALPA's "special list"? After all the mud USAPA has thrown at ALPA, I don't think ALPA would piss on East pilots if they were on fire. Furthermore, the East wants the West to support a picket to attain a coveted DOH contract that will only trigger DFR2 which USAPA will lose. Why would the West picket in support of something they will turn around and sue USAPA over?

Finally, USAPA doesn't have the anywhere NEAR enough legitimacy to go on strike. Why don't you chug on over to mamby pampy land and look for support there, you Jack-wagon.

 

[St. Nic]

You USAPIANs take yourselves so seriously that you actually think you are regarded as a legitimate pilot's union. Aw, that's so cute. I grew up in a non-aviation, union family so it would kill my parents if I crossed a REAL picket line. However, do you really think doing so would get West pilots on ALPA's "special list"? After all the mud USAPA has thrown at ALPA, I don't think ALPA would piss on East pilots if they were on fire. Furthermore, the East wants the West to support a picket to attain a coveted DOH contract that will only trigger DFR2 which USAPA will lose. Why would the West picket in support of something they will turn around and sue USAPA over?

Finally, USAPA doesn't have the anywhere NEAR enough legitimacy to go on strike. Why don't you chug on over to mamby pampy land and look for support there, you Jack-wagon.

Baptiste and Wilder- dead on with Wake. The West chose to spend two million plus for an unripe case, so keep forging ahead with that groundbreaking logic.Interesting how quickly the West mindset chooses to shrug off the ruling from the 9th, and then re write labor law. Now the Nic is back! Out come the cheerleaders, the ones who must have urged you on with the original suit where the cardiologist / attorney took your money and delivered nothing.I'll take Wilder over Mitch Vasin any day.Very amusing how Vasin tried to go head to head with him, and was literally shredded.Be careful with that money you keep shoveling into Leonidas with the urging of Koontz and Vasin. They are giving you very bad advice. Now the company has delayed the inevitable with their filing. You cannot put this INTERNAL UNION ISSUE off much longer. When it becomes very clear USAPA is free to go ahead as long as there is no damage you will see. And it all depends on what damage is. These days, if you have a job you are basically undamaged. Your view of damage is going to be very interesting when you have to stack it up against another pilot.

ALL GREAT POINTS

 

[Carl S.]

JJ(St. Nic.), Why no national officers at our PHX meeting last month? Ever hear about our statute of limitations for filling DFR I? So far looks like money well spent, at least from how the company is taking care of DFR II for free for us. Any word on the Crimi recall status?

 

[Cowboy75]

Baptiste and Wilder- dead on with Wake. You cannot put this INTERNAL UNION ISSUE off much longer. When it becomes very clear USAPA is free to go ahead as long as there is no damage you will see. And it all depends on what damage is. These days, if you have a job you are basically undamaged. Your view of damage is going to be very interesting when you have to stack it up against another pilot.

ALL GREAT POINTS

INTERNAL UNION ISSUE is code for exclude the West pilots in the decision making processs. While you are on the subject of damage, damages accrue every day pilots remain furloughed or downgraded as a result of ignoring binding arbitration. It just means East pilots like yourself are going to pull money out of your pockets in the form of damages when the case is ripe. Pilots like myself continue to fund Leonidas because we are expecting a return on our investment.

You better start saving your money or postpone that big purchase until this thing is over. You're going to be writing checks and we are going to start collecting.

 

[get2flyin]

Baptiste and Wilder- dead on with Wake. (Says the Eastie)The West chose to spend two million plus for an unripe case, so keep forging ahead with that groundbreaking logic. (And the East threw out a union to beat "BINDING ARBITRATION", keep forging ahead with THAT logic) Interesting how quickly the West mindset chooses to shrug off the ruling from the 9th, and then re write labor law. (Interesting how quickly the East mindset choose to shrug off the ruling from Nic and then re-write labor law) Now the Nic is back! (REJOICE!) Out come the cheerleaders, the ones who must have urged you on with the original suit where the cardiologist / attorney took your money and delivered nothing. (Huh? We didn't need outside urging, we had the law on our side) I'll take Wilder over Mitch Vasin any day.Very amusing how Vasin tried to go head to head with him, and was literally shredded. (Again, Huh? I have NO idea what you are even talking about. Mitch isn't "the union", he is an affected pilot who, in addition to being far smarter than you, has chosen to fight the corruption from the East). Be careful with that money you keep shoveling into Leonidas with the urging of Koontz and Vasin. (You know that Vasin had NOTHING to do with the creation of Leonidas, right? In fact, early on he was very much at odds with the approach they had chosen to pursue.) They are giving you very bad advice. (Unlike the lawyer you've blown, what, 8 million on?) Now the company has delayed the inevitable with their filing. (No, they have tried to break the log-jam USAPA has created and blamed on the company so they can move forward. Remember the East war cry, "Delay, delay, delay"?) You cannot put this INTERNAL UNION ISSUE off much longer. (AWESOME! It's about time!) When it becomes very clear USAPA is free to go ahead as long as there is no damage you will see. (Will I? Will I really?) And it all depends on what damage is. These days, if you have a job you are basically undamaged. (You stopped making sense at the 3rd "damaged") Your view of damage is going to be very interesting when you have to stack it up against another pilot. (I stacked it up a long time ago. You, my friend, became damaged goods long before AWA showed up and threw you a life jacket).

ALL GREAT POINTS (Are you patting yourself on the back for the post you made? Classy. Whatever, champ)

There. I fixed it.​

 

[Bringupthebird]

Says the greedy west pilot. So tell me, how will it feel to be put on that special list when USAPA strikes? How do you think other airlines will look at you? How about ALPA? Think it through first.

Wait a minute. USAPAians all said they didn't care what pilots from other airlines thought of them and their temper-tantrum union. Now you feel their opinion has merit. Why is that?

As far as a USAPA strike goes, if I stop in the restroom on my way I might miss the whole thing. The senior guys have carried the angry F/O's as far as their gonna. The new F/O's are too glad to be out of their crumbling RJ world to risk anything. And the west has no interest in supporting anything USAPA does as long as USAPA is pursuing legal action against it's own member in lieu of actully leading. That leaves a few overinflated egos to try and pull off something meaningful. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Cowboy75]

Be careful with that money you keep shoveling into Leonidas with the urging of Koontz and Vasin.

JJ,

I'm looking at ck# 17846 from Seham's law firm. Have any idea why he's writing checks concerning the lawsuit against the Cactus 18?

Since you are in the know, care to explain??