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Senate bill would mandate more research for pilot fatigue

diggertwo

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http://www.pilotbug.com/?p=279

Included in the Senate's FAA Air Transportation Modernization and Safety Improvement Act is a provision which will address long sought after issues on pilot flight time, duty and rest. It mandates that within 3 months of the enactment of the bill into law, the FAA, in conjunction with the Academy of Sciences, will conduct a study of pilot fatigue.


The study will include research on:
(1) research on fatigue, sleep, and circadian rhythms;
(2) sleep and rest requirements recommended by the National Transportation Safety Board; and
(3) international standards.


Within 18 months of the study, the Academy of Sciences will present the findings, along with recommendations for the FAA to implement in future rule-making in regards to flight time and rest requirements.


Also within this portion of the bill is a similar proposal to address flight attendant rest and fatigue to be conducted by the Civil Aerospace Medical Institute.


The push toward more defined rest rules was initiated by the crash in February of Continental Connection Flight 3407, which took 50 lives, including one on the ground. It has been speculated that fatigue may have been a contributing factor in the crash, as investigators tried to reconstruct the flight crew's sleep and rest in the 24 hours prior to the flight.
 

pilotyip

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Sleeping in the Cockpit

Will this be addressed. FAA did study in the late 80's early 90's and recommend controlled sleeping in the cockpit was the best way to combat fatigue. They studied the occurrence of micro naps, these are naps that you have no control over, and you nod off. On crews studied who did not have controlled sleeping in the cockpit there were 147 occurrences of micro nap, a number of them during the approach phase. On the crews at foreign airlines that allowed sleeping in the cockpit, there were no occurrences of micro naps during the approach phase. The FAA recommended that controlled napping in the cockpit be adopted as US policy, however Gov’t officials felt that official recognition of sleeping on the job was un-American. Sorry of a mirco-nap. When you fly shifting schedules, you have to plan sleeping otherwise it is uncontrollable. Having one guy rest his eyes for 20 minutes, when other one knows it is going on does wonders for your ability to make that tight approach at the end of the night. However when everyone in the cockpit is asleep, that is scary. We used to fly these night and day patrols around Vietnam, terrible schedule, 12 hr flights, fly a day flight 12 hours off fly a night flight, 24 hrs off fly a day flight. 10 days in a row. One night off the south end of the country, at 0300, nothing is going on, no contacts, no chatter on the intercom, I am fighting off sleep and loosing, a mirco-nap hits and I nod off. I wake up, you do not know if it has been 30 seconds or 30 minutes, we are on the autopilot' at 1,500’, #1 engine in the bag to save fuel, and all 10 of the crew is asleep. Talk about being wide-awake, Where the are we? Now how do you wake up the PPC without letting him know you nodded off also? The F/E was also in the bag. So I called for "Coffee around for my friends" The point is the worse thing about sleeping in the cockpit is letting it sneak up on you, You know it might happen, plan on when it is going to happen, control it.
 

JoeMerchant

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I predict more money wasted, and new rules that result in more rest and fewer days at home......

Be careful what you wish for....
 

SLUF4

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airlines will need more pilots if we have to have more rest.
 

WMUSIGPI

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http://www.pilotbug.com/?p=279

Included in the Senate's FAA Air Transportation Modernization and Safety Improvement Act is a provision which will address long sought after issues on pilot flight time, duty and rest. It mandates that within 3 months of the enactment of the bill into law, the FAA, in conjunction with the Academy of Sciences, will conduct a study of pilot fatigue.


The study will include research on:
(1) research on fatigue, sleep, and circadian rhythms;
(2) sleep and rest requirements recommended by the National Transportation Safety Board; and
(3) international standards.


Within 18 months of the study, the Academy of Sciences will present the findings, along with recommendations for the FAA to implement in future rule-making in regards to flight time and rest requirements.


Also within this portion of the bill is a similar proposal to address flight attendant rest and fatigue to be conducted by the Civil Aerospace Medical Institute.


The push toward more defined rest rules was initiated by the crash in February of Continental Connection Flight 3407, which took 50 lives, including one on the ground. It has been speculated that fatigue may have been a contributing factor in the crash, as investigators tried to reconstruct the flight crew's sleep and rest in the 24 hours prior to the flight.


Sounds like more BS lip service to pander to voters that they are "doing everything possible" while really not doing anything that could piss off the lobbies lining these bums' pockets.
 

pilotyip

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And they will make no more money

airlines will need more pilots if we have to have more rest.
So the present salaries will have to be spread amongst more pilots ='s less pay per pilot, because the airline will still fly the same number of hours. Or the ticket price can rise and result in fewer tickets sold, ='s need for fewer pilots. There is no easy answer when the consumer determines how much money you can charge for an airline ticket.
 

Nevets

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Sounds like more BS lip service to pander to voters that they are "doing everything possible" while really not doing anything that could piss off the lobbies lining these bums' pockets.

Actually, I think this language (which is also in HR915) will be moot since the FAA has already created an ARC to change the rest requirements. By the way, this was not pandering on the part of some congressman. This was lobbied for by ALPA a couple of years ago.

Seven ALPA Pilots Chosen for FAA ARC

The FAA is undertaking a comprehensive review of flight-time and duty-time (FT/DT) regulations to better reflect current research on sleep, rest periods, and alertness. The next phase of the process in updating FT/DT rules is to convene an Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC), a group made up of representatives from labor, industry, and the FAA, who will draft the proposed changes. Seven ALPA pilots have been selected to participate in this endeavor. ALPA’s executive administrator, Capt. Don Wykoff, will co-chair the ARC. Other pilots who will serve include Capt. Bill Soer (FDX), Capt. Darrel Cox (MSA), Capt. Greg Whiting (UAL), and Capt. Michael Hynes (CAL). Capt. Matt Rettig (EGL) and Capt. Peter Davis (ASA) will act as alternates.

These gentlemen will be crucial in helping other ARC participants understand the practical applications of the rules and the pilot perspective.
ALPA has long been a proponent of updating FT/DT regulations to better reflect the existing science. In a recent statement, ALPA president Capt. John Prater said, “Considering that the pilot flight-time and rest rules in use today were created more than 60 years ago, it becomes immediately clear that we need a swift and innovative approach to modernizing these standards.”
http://public.alpa.org/portals/alpa/...0090717.htm#03
 
Last edited:

brokeflyer

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So the present salaries will have to be spread amongst more pilots ='s less pay per pilot, because the airline will still fly the same number of hours. Or the ticket price can rise and result in fewer tickets sold, ='s need for fewer pilots. There is no easy answer when the consumer determines how much money you can charge for an airline ticket.

well at least management will still get their raises though.....
 

JoeMerchant

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airlines will need more pilots if we have to have more rest.

1. Not necessarily....you may just end up working more days to get the same amount of block time.

2. Is now really the time to increase costs on our business....That will make it even harder to negotiate pay increases.....
 

CFI2766

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1. Not necessarily....you may just end up working more days to get the same amount of block time.

2. Is now really the time to increase costs on our business....That will make it even harder to negotiate pay increases.....


Would you make any changes to the rest regs?

I suspect that the airlines that have trip and duty rigs will wind up having the same amount of duty days. Block hours will go down, and there will be pressure to lower the monthly guarantees.

Clearly, though, something needs to be done. What is in place now is a joke.
 

JoeMerchant

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So joe what do you want longer duty days? is that the answer? Tool

I want to work as few days as possible.....If I'm fatigued....I will call in fatigued and take the pay hit.....What we are going to get will probably require more days at work...then you will all bitch about having fewer days at home....
 

JoeMerchant

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Would you make any changes to the rest regs?

NO...what changes would you make?

CFI2766 said:
I suspect that the airlines that have trip and duty rigs will wind up having the same amount of duty days. Block hours will go down, and there will be pressure to lower the monthly guarantees.

Clearly, though, something needs to be done. What is in place now is a joke.

Here at ASA, even with duty rigs, you may end up with more days at work....are you willing to do that? It will either end up with more days at work, or eventually lower guarantees as you say...either way, not a good deal for many of us....

What do you propose?
 

SLUF4

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What I propose is that we look at the results of the study. I'd like to see some real data on how cognitive ability is affected at certain points (12 hours, 14 hours etc...). We already know that if you are awake for long periods of time it's the equivalent of being drunk. It's time something is done about one of the biggest hazards in aviation. And yes, I've flown corporate, 135 on demand, and 121 so I know about a long duty day.
 

buscap

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At ASA our contract does a fairly good job of protecting our rest.

The oh-crap 16 hour day resulting from weather or maintenance can still happen, and that does suck, but I feel there is no need for adjusting that number.

And I would say this; any pilot who works at an airline where they can't raise a legitimate fatigue flag should consider working toward getting a union or improving the union they have.
 

sweptback

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The best thing about the upcoming flight time/duty time regs is that it will level the playing field for everybody.

Yes, the upper tier of regionals like ASA, XJT, CMR, ARW, etc. have good contracts that protect their rest and make fatigue less of an issue. But, we are competing with the airlines who have the FARs as their rest rules, and it puts us at a disadvantage.

So, if the rest rules were across the board even, and they were made to the point where you didn't have to bargain in your contract for safety issues like rest, think of how better off the airlines would be as a whole?
 

s3jetman

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here is a typical 3 day for a gia pilot. I think , not only total flight time, but also legs flown has an effect on performance and fatique. This trip here has 20 legs in three days. The numbers to far right are times between flights. Not only are you flying 20 legs in threee days but there is not one period of time set for lunch, rest, get water anything. I konw that every regional has these kinds of days and maybe if we made a fed ride on one of these three day trips they would get a sense of just how fatigued we can get. something has to change its just sad the gov will take 2 plus years to do it


TH 9162 FLL-FPO 0805 0850 45 25
TH 9258 FPO-FLL 0915 1000 45 30
TH 9186 FLL-NAS 1030 1135 105 25
TH 9240 NAS-FLL 1200 1305 105 30
TH 9177 FLL-NAS 1335 1440 105 25
TH 9141 NAS-FLL 1505 1610 105 50
TH 9239 FLL-MHH 1700 1800 100


FR 9246 MHH-FLL 0900 1010 110 40
FR 9175 FLL-EYW 1050 1143 53 25
FR 9257 EYW-FLL 1208 1300 52 30
FR 9215 FLL-GHB 1330 1435 105 25
FR 9217 GHB-FLL 1500 1610 110 40
FR 9221 FLL-ELH 1650 1800 110

SA 9222 ELH-FLL 0925 1035 110 55
SA 9262 FLL-FPO 1130 1215 45 30
SA 9262 FPO-FLL 1245 1330 45 30
SA 9169 FLL-FPO 1400 1445 45 25
SA 9134 FPO-FLL 1510 1555 45 40
SA 9226 FLL-FPO 1635 1720 45 25
SA 9130 FPO-FLL 1745 1830 45
 

front9

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Yeah but if you're like PCL_128 you just cant buy hours like that...wait nevermind.
 
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