Here is some advice for anyone that cares to listen. If you see ads about every two weeks for pilots from a company such as this one don't be naive like myself and think, hmmmm.... they must be expanding, especially with this "great" economy. Its more like these people treat their employee's like dirt and either everyone gets fired or quits. Two Captains this month, and four last month. No wonder so many ads for pilots! Everyone on this board do yourself a favor and stay away from this company!!
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Segrave- the worst charter to work for
- Thread starter airspeed
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Segrave
MX is okay, but everything else sucks. Pay 220/day for CE550 Captain!! 42/day per diem only if you spend the night. No company credit cards, fly all day and come to find out that they never even made the hotel reservations for you, two pilots almost got incarcerated cause our "dispatch" never called customs. All they do is lie, lie, and lie. You have to work there to expierience it. The place sucks!
MX is okay, but everything else sucks. Pay 220/day for CE550 Captain!! 42/day per diem only if you spend the night. No company credit cards, fly all day and come to find out that they never even made the hotel reservations for you, two pilots almost got incarcerated cause our "dispatch" never called customs. All they do is lie, lie, and lie. You have to work there to expierience it. The place sucks!
TaxiDriver
Well-known member
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- Sep 19, 2002
- Posts
- 113
I am not trying to start a bickering match here, however, please don't tell me that just because of what you stated above makes Seagrave suck.
Pay $220.00 per day for a Citation Capt.....not bad for North Carolina. Rates for that sized jet in California are around $300.00 per day......I think our cost of living is quite higher!
Per diem $42.00 a day....close to most 135 operator per diem rates.
Hotel reservations....so what if they aren't made the night before! Unless you are going to the Super Bowl, Colorado Ski Season...etc. If you don't want to spend much time locating a reasonable hotel, make a quick phone call to the FBO and have them arrange.
Customs??? The last time I looked, the PIC is responsible for coordinating customs. Of course, many times dispatch sets everything up....or has Universal, etc...make those calls. However, the PIC should always double check to make sure that the person who was making the calls, in fact...made those calls!
Sounds like you might be new to corporate aviation. We are not like the military or the airlines where everything is done for you! We have to think outside the box, and in many situations, go above and beyond what is required to be a pilot. This is especially true in small flight departments where staffing does not allow everything to be put on a silver platter and handed to the guy that wears 4 stripes.
Maybe your employer does suck and maybe somewhere you have valid points why no one should work there. But just because you don't like the wages, making hotel reservations and doing your duties as PIC of a flight is not a valid reason why Seagrave should be avoided by a prospective employee.
Pay $220.00 per day for a Citation Capt.....not bad for North Carolina. Rates for that sized jet in California are around $300.00 per day......I think our cost of living is quite higher!
Per diem $42.00 a day....close to most 135 operator per diem rates.
Hotel reservations....so what if they aren't made the night before! Unless you are going to the Super Bowl, Colorado Ski Season...etc. If you don't want to spend much time locating a reasonable hotel, make a quick phone call to the FBO and have them arrange.
Customs??? The last time I looked, the PIC is responsible for coordinating customs. Of course, many times dispatch sets everything up....or has Universal, etc...make those calls. However, the PIC should always double check to make sure that the person who was making the calls, in fact...made those calls!
Sounds like you might be new to corporate aviation. We are not like the military or the airlines where everything is done for you! We have to think outside the box, and in many situations, go above and beyond what is required to be a pilot. This is especially true in small flight departments where staffing does not allow everything to be put on a silver platter and handed to the guy that wears 4 stripes.
Maybe your employer does suck and maybe somewhere you have valid points why no one should work there. But just because you don't like the wages, making hotel reservations and doing your duties as PIC of a flight is not a valid reason why Seagrave should be avoided by a prospective employee.
Chocks
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TaxiDriver....easy now big fella. What's the point of having company dispatchers if they aren't going to do anything to support you. I have no problem dealing with hotels/customs if that is what I am supposed to do, but if dispatch or charter is supposed to take care of these duties it can cause problems when they drop the ball.
You obviously have some distain for Airline and Military backgrounds. I have both backgrounds prior to my currenty 135 job, and frankly they do some things better. BTW, as a military PIC you have to do EVERTHING yourself from hotels to customs to even dealing with embassy issues civilian air has nothing to do with. You would be surprised the responsiblity military PICs carry.
I work for a quality (as quality as 135 can get) charter outfit in California and there is night and day difference between a good operator and the so called 134 and 1/2 operators. A career pilot can put his future in jeopardy working for a shady operator. Be careful.
My 2 cents.............Chocks
You obviously have some distain for Airline and Military backgrounds. I have both backgrounds prior to my currenty 135 job, and frankly they do some things better. BTW, as a military PIC you have to do EVERTHING yourself from hotels to customs to even dealing with embassy issues civilian air has nothing to do with. You would be surprised the responsiblity military PICs carry.
I work for a quality (as quality as 135 can get) charter outfit in California and there is night and day difference between a good operator and the so called 134 and 1/2 operators. A career pilot can put his future in jeopardy working for a shady operator. Be careful.
My 2 cents.............Chocks
TaxiDriver
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I totally agree with you, Chocks. Dispatch is there to support the crew in planning and completing a trip. They are of no use to the crew and the company if they cannot adequately perform their job. I believe that if dispatch is dropping the ball on hotels, customs, etc....then management should rectify the situation. Does this make the company "suck" as the original poster put it? I don't think so.
Do I have some distain for Airline and Military individuals? Nope. I have worked at the airlines before corporate. I have worked with many ex-airline and military pilots in the corporate sector. It was just my experience that around 90% of those guys got bent out of shape if dispatch asked for help. ie hotels, catering, customs...etc. Maybe who I flew with was not a true representation of ex airline and military.
There is a difference in a good charter operator and a 134 1/2 operator. I too, work for a good charter operator. However, with the current state of the US economy....a Part 135 dispatcher has a heavy burden if they are also selling trips as well. You know how it goes...the more trips they sell....the more money the company makes....job security increases etc. If dispatch asks me to help in making hotel reservations because they are busy booking trips....by all means...I am going to help. There is no "I" in team.....and the 50+ pilots that work where I do have the same attitude.
I just felt reading the original post from airspeed, he just wanted to do some Seagrave bashing because they made him work outside the cockpit. That's all.
Do I have some distain for Airline and Military individuals? Nope. I have worked at the airlines before corporate. I have worked with many ex-airline and military pilots in the corporate sector. It was just my experience that around 90% of those guys got bent out of shape if dispatch asked for help. ie hotels, catering, customs...etc. Maybe who I flew with was not a true representation of ex airline and military.
There is a difference in a good charter operator and a 134 1/2 operator. I too, work for a good charter operator. However, with the current state of the US economy....a Part 135 dispatcher has a heavy burden if they are also selling trips as well. You know how it goes...the more trips they sell....the more money the company makes....job security increases etc. If dispatch asks me to help in making hotel reservations because they are busy booking trips....by all means...I am going to help. There is no "I" in team.....and the 50+ pilots that work where I do have the same attitude.
I just felt reading the original post from airspeed, he just wanted to do some Seagrave bashing because they made him work outside the cockpit. That's all.
Chocks
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2002
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- 100
Hotel Reservations
I've made my own hotel reservations...I don't mind doing that. As a matter of fact, usually it means I get to pick where I stay. (Hard Rock in Vegas on a Friday Night Rocks!!) Out of the cockpit duties don't bother me unless I'm doing it because the person who was supposed to do it is just being lazy.
Rental cars - usually they are set up..if not, I do it myself and just submit the expense in my report. The biggest problem we have had at my company deals with slot times. The dispatchers get the slots (for ski areas) and occasionally they mess up the date/time. Or they get the only slot available and don't change the takeoff time. We fixed this by requiring a copy of the slot off the web page in our paperwork...not just the slot number. We flew our asses off this winter (I flew 95 hours between mid December and mid January) and occasionally there would be a problem with slots....not like Net Jets...Three days in a row I heard Center tell Net Jets they couldn't get into Sun Vallley or Twin Falls because they didn't have valid slots. Hello Boise!!
I think they eventually fixed their problem.
Fly safe...
I've made my own hotel reservations...I don't mind doing that. As a matter of fact, usually it means I get to pick where I stay. (Hard Rock in Vegas on a Friday Night Rocks!!) Out of the cockpit duties don't bother me unless I'm doing it because the person who was supposed to do it is just being lazy.
Rental cars - usually they are set up..if not, I do it myself and just submit the expense in my report. The biggest problem we have had at my company deals with slot times. The dispatchers get the slots (for ski areas) and occasionally they mess up the date/time. Or they get the only slot available and don't change the takeoff time. We fixed this by requiring a copy of the slot off the web page in our paperwork...not just the slot number. We flew our asses off this winter (I flew 95 hours between mid December and mid January) and occasionally there would be a problem with slots....not like Net Jets...Three days in a row I heard Center tell Net Jets they couldn't get into Sun Vallley or Twin Falls because they didn't have valid slots. Hello Boise!!
I think they eventually fixed their problem.
Fly safe...
Segrave
Okay, ket me explain a thing or two. First off I have been doing the Part 135 and corporate for over a decade. SHould have never left the Navy. I have no problem making my hotel reservations, filing flt. plans, booking rental cars, etc. I am not a primadonna in anyway. Here are just ten examples of how bad this company is. You show up for a flt where there is supposed to be one or two people. #1They show up with six or eight and you have already fueled the a/c. Oh c'mon they say, it will do it. #2
Hey your going to MTH and will be there for three days. You get there and dispatch calls you after you went to the hotel asking where the hell are you, your supposed to be in PBI. We told your copilot that. Talk to the FO, they never said anything. #3 Fly over 9hrs a few days in a row. We get to our last destination for the day and guess what, they never even attempted to get us a hotel. #4 We have scheduled days off, what a joke! They accept charters that they know will be done on our days off and then leave us way away from home unless we accept the charter. No extra day off, no extra pay, nothing. #4 We get 42/day per diem which is crap if your going to be in St. Thomas for a week, and you don't get a cent unless u overnite. #5 It takes three mnonths on avg. to get reimbursed for ANYTHING! #6 None of the crewmembers are issued credit cards so half the time we are putting the rental cars on our card. Expensive ya think? #7 read question #6 and look at # 5. Get my point? #8 The owner is a real liar about everything! #9 They don't care about wx, a cancelled trip means a demerit. # 10 You just have to go there and see. Look everyone, lets face it there are alot of us looking for work. I got into flying cause I love it, its my life. Now I am not 18 anymore, I am done with the Navy and I have to pay bills. I want to get paid what I am worth. I do not believe AT ALL that crap about pay differences because you may live in Maine as compared to NYC. For example. Avg rent in Conneticut 700 to 1000/month. in North Carolina 500 to 700/month okay about say 400/month cheaper. Thats 4800/yr. Lets say your car insurance is a grand or two cheaper. Now we are at 7000 grand a year less expnesive to live. Food is pretty much the same and gas is too. So why does a Captaiin on a DiamondJet get 40000/yr at this place and 60000/yr up in CT? Your gonna tell me its 20K a year cheaper to live in NC? NO WAY!!! As I said we are all hungry for work. Learn from my mistake, don't settle. If you do your only doing yourself and your fellow pilots a diservice because your letting these employers pay less, want more and treat us worse. They **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well know that there will always be someone waiting in line to take the job, thats always been the problem since for most of us flying is a passion, not usually something you just say you do for work, its in your blood. The insurance companies have gotten on this bandwagon too as there rates and requiremtns are outta control. If I had to goto school to stay current per the insurance companies requiremtns I would be a full time student. Enough said, good luck to all.
Okay, ket me explain a thing or two. First off I have been doing the Part 135 and corporate for over a decade. SHould have never left the Navy. I have no problem making my hotel reservations, filing flt. plans, booking rental cars, etc. I am not a primadonna in anyway. Here are just ten examples of how bad this company is. You show up for a flt where there is supposed to be one or two people. #1They show up with six or eight and you have already fueled the a/c. Oh c'mon they say, it will do it. #2
Hey your going to MTH and will be there for three days. You get there and dispatch calls you after you went to the hotel asking where the hell are you, your supposed to be in PBI. We told your copilot that. Talk to the FO, they never said anything. #3 Fly over 9hrs a few days in a row. We get to our last destination for the day and guess what, they never even attempted to get us a hotel. #4 We have scheduled days off, what a joke! They accept charters that they know will be done on our days off and then leave us way away from home unless we accept the charter. No extra day off, no extra pay, nothing. #4 We get 42/day per diem which is crap if your going to be in St. Thomas for a week, and you don't get a cent unless u overnite. #5 It takes three mnonths on avg. to get reimbursed for ANYTHING! #6 None of the crewmembers are issued credit cards so half the time we are putting the rental cars on our card. Expensive ya think? #7 read question #6 and look at # 5. Get my point? #8 The owner is a real liar about everything! #9 They don't care about wx, a cancelled trip means a demerit. # 10 You just have to go there and see. Look everyone, lets face it there are alot of us looking for work. I got into flying cause I love it, its my life. Now I am not 18 anymore, I am done with the Navy and I have to pay bills. I want to get paid what I am worth. I do not believe AT ALL that crap about pay differences because you may live in Maine as compared to NYC. For example. Avg rent in Conneticut 700 to 1000/month. in North Carolina 500 to 700/month okay about say 400/month cheaper. Thats 4800/yr. Lets say your car insurance is a grand or two cheaper. Now we are at 7000 grand a year less expnesive to live. Food is pretty much the same and gas is too. So why does a Captaiin on a DiamondJet get 40000/yr at this place and 60000/yr up in CT? Your gonna tell me its 20K a year cheaper to live in NC? NO WAY!!! As I said we are all hungry for work. Learn from my mistake, don't settle. If you do your only doing yourself and your fellow pilots a diservice because your letting these employers pay less, want more and treat us worse. They **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well know that there will always be someone waiting in line to take the job, thats always been the problem since for most of us flying is a passion, not usually something you just say you do for work, its in your blood. The insurance companies have gotten on this bandwagon too as there rates and requiremtns are outta control. If I had to goto school to stay current per the insurance companies requiremtns I would be a full time student. Enough said, good luck to all.
In defense of Airspeed, I met a Seagrave crew several months ago at an FBO in SCH, NY. They were a Diamond jet crew. We talked for a while. They also stated that Seagrave was a "difficult" place to work for, and stated some of the same conditions that "Airspeed" was saying.
There are plenty of resumes stacked on every chief pilot's desk now, and for every one that leaves a job, there are ten qualified candidates for that job. It is "dog eat dog" market out there now; some time ago I ran into a Citation crew whose FO was basically flying for free (about 18K yr) just to gain the experience. Five years ago this may have been unheard of. But its happening out there.
Enjoy.
There are plenty of resumes stacked on every chief pilot's desk now, and for every one that leaves a job, there are ten qualified candidates for that job. It is "dog eat dog" market out there now; some time ago I ran into a Citation crew whose FO was basically flying for free (about 18K yr) just to gain the experience. Five years ago this may have been unheard of. But its happening out there.
Enjoy.
Gulfstream 200
Database Expert
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- Jan 21, 2002
- Posts
- 4,574
$700 for rent in CT??
maybe in the HOOD............
Man, you sound seriously bitter about this job! I cant blame you....but....rat$hit 135 jobs will always be there, never change the way they operate, and always be "pilot mills" with a revolving door of personell....remember, in ANY times, there will always be some schmuck pilot willing to do that job, no matter what.
Dont fight it, dont think you will change it.....get over it and move on!
maybe in the HOOD............
Man, you sound seriously bitter about this job! I cant blame you....but....rat$hit 135 jobs will always be there, never change the way they operate, and always be "pilot mills" with a revolving door of personell....remember, in ANY times, there will always be some schmuck pilot willing to do that job, no matter what.
Dont fight it, dont think you will change it.....get over it and move on!
Flywrite
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2002
- Posts
- 770
I've noticed that on most of their (frequent) job ads there is a line that says "...if you cant follow these instructions, dont apply". I can understand them not wanting to be swamped with faxes if they prefer e-mail etc., but the tone of the ad just gives me the feeling they are jerks to work for.
If life was so bad there - why didn't you catch the fractional wave? You could be flying a Falcon 2000 on a 7-on-7-off schedule by now....
I don't understand why people stay in these jobs over long periods of time - yeah, times are tough, but if you have good experience and a good personality you should be able to find other work... Right? At least you probably got a type and some jet time - that would be helpful...
Good luck!
I don't understand why people stay in these jobs over long periods of time - yeah, times are tough, but if you have good experience and a good personality you should be able to find other work... Right? At least you probably got a type and some jet time - that would be helpful...
Good luck!
Pelican 10
PELICAN 10
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2005
- Posts
- 86
not last I heard, best friend did it for 3 months and had to quit, owner promised him good changes and came up empty handed, between the bounced paychecks and mx problems he had enough.......be safe people, places like this get people killed, I know families need to be fed but there are other options, quit while you can.
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