Screw this industry?

[Ty Webb]

Northern WI about 20 miles from the U.P.... You gonna be in MI or WI?

Boulder Junction. My wife and her brothers are coordinating the details right now.

How about you?

 

[AlbieF15]

Great thread. Lots to ponder.

I'm a happy go lucky type, but I'm with the Italian and Ty on this one. Granted, I am at a major with a good (hopefully better soon) contract and I have an ANG gig. Disclaimers aside...

Yes...I miss my family terribly when I am away. My middle girl used to say she "hated FedEX", or said so until Daddy explained that if she wanted me to stay home that was fine, but she couldn't go shopping with mommy in the mall this week if I stayed home. Once I put where the money comes from into the equation, they understand a bit more. My biggest regret is never that I am not home with them, but rather they aren't there with ME to share the new sites and interesting things I get to see when out on a trip.

My oldest girl wrote a long paper and won a class contest on her hero. It was...guess who...ME...because she knows about all the military work I had to do during her life, and she respects the fact 8 days a month or more I'm wearing a green bag into the base and WORKING on those days off my contract guarantees. Yes...she misses me...but she also understands that those sacrifices military guys make keep us free. Knowing she is proud of me is worth a lot more than the odd day off here and there...

However, I don't work ALL the time. Like Ty...I've also had some great experiences on those off days. Especially in the summer, I love being home on weekdays when there are fewer people and boats out on the water. I actually prefer doing weekend airline flying and having my weekdays off. I have a physician buddy who gets a 1/2 day Wednesday and the weekends off, period. His 3 weeks annual vacation cannot be adjusted into Friday-Monday off type of deals which give him a 4 day weekend, but must be used up in 5 day increments. He's home every night, but has to drive to/from work every day spending about 45 minutes a day on the road. He is jealous when I say I will drop a trip and come over that week or trade off a day of work--he has none of that flexibility. I like being able to bid lines that protect those days off that I want off--kids plays, gym meets, etc are a lot more important to me than specific holidays or weekends. I also appreciate the chance to work extra if there is a bill to pay, or drop a trip here and there if time off is more important at the moment. How many professions let you call in and say "I won't be in Wednesday...just dock a day's pay from my salary?"

I also use my free time and layover periods to work on a side business. Lots of board folks have used my prep services, and I actually enjoy the chance on layovers to catch up and organize projects. I might have to skip a few beers with the crew, and I never watch TV on the road, but I use that time to contact clients, compose emails, and deal with day to day details of the business. I've known other guys who sell pharamacuticals or broker airplanes or trade stocks or swing real estate deals. How many jobs give you that kind of second career options?

The other perk I have at Fedex (you wanted company names...here it is) working at a major and at the ANG is my wife now stays at home with the kids. Yes...I work hard, but knowing she is there to tend to the kids needs makes a lot of my sacrifices worth the trouble. Guys getting started at a regional probably couldn't afford that. Then again, guys who go to UPT in the ANG and go full time a few years might be able to--but you end up paying your dues either to the regionals or to Uncle Sam along the way in this business if you are typical. Pick your poison--either has its pros/cons.

Once you get to the big iron, if you really want 9-5, you might consider training or airline management jobs. Not at a major, or doing corporate work? How about working at flight safety or simulfight or similar gigs? There isn't a job out there for everyone who wants one, but if you love flying BUT want to be home every night there is an option. I cannot speak for other carriers, but FedEx has a variety of out and backs (both day and night) that are popular with domicile based crews. If you say "I don't want to live at my domicile AND I don't want to sleep away from home" then maybe you do need to investigate some options. However, if you come to FedEx you can fly 14 days a pop going around the world or you can put you kids to bed at 8, go to bed yourself, then go launch at 0400 and be back home by 1100 or so three nights a week. You'll be there when your kids get home from school.

I'll say this for my airline gig--I don't take it home with me. When I am home--I may be stressed from household projects or other self induced worries, but its not paperwork, promotions, upcoming inspections, etc that keep me from enjoying and savoring the day. Like another poster, my dad was a defense contractor, and I saw first hand all the stress he endured in that career. Since I never had the musical talent to be a rock star, , and the porno industry doesn't seem to be in need of 40ish guys with pasty white skin and thinning hair, I think I really am a very lucky guy to get to fly for a living...and I plan on hanging here as long as the Good Lord lets me keep my health and my smile.

 

[Ty Webb]

Albie is right on.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that if you live in an area that isn't expensive and has good public schools, you may not have to work your sack off.

I live in a town that has great public schools, Gulf of Mexico beaches a short drive away, no crime, and 6 flights a day to ATL on my own carrier . . . and the taxes are so low, I have to laugh as I sign the check . . . . maybe that has more to do with my happiness than the name brand of the airline I manipulate the controls for.

Quality of life . . . . it means different things to different people.

 

[Tanner]

80 hrs- with 11 straight days off? wow! Ty, you're my hero. Let's see 80 hrs x $61 =$4,880. Now let's multiply that by 12 mos. Looks like you'll be about $12,000 short of that 70K you've been spouting off about. I've been keeping my eye on you....all the way from the garden section at Home Depot! Oh...now I know why you're laughing while signing your check. Shut your "pie hole", nobody cares who you manipulate the controls for.

 

[DesertFalcon]

...I should have been a rock star...

I was thinking of becoming a Proctologist, butt,......

 

[SMMustang]

Albie is right on.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that if you live in an area that isn't expensive and has good public schools, you may not have to work your sack off.

I live in a town that has great public schools, Gulf of Mexico beaches a short drive away, no crime, and 6 flights a day to ATL on my own carrier . . . and the taxes are so low, I have to laugh as I sign the check . . . . maybe that has more to do with my happiness than the name brand of the airline I manipulate the controls for.

Quality of life . . . . it means different things to different people.

Albie also has a job that will be infinitely harder to attain for someone who is 20 yrs old right now. Like I said, I love my job at a major, but ain't no way I'm going back to a commuter. Someone earlier said that aviation is a mature industry and that airlines will be able to shop around for the lowest paid pilot. What happens in the future when, "the people who'd fly for free" are pretty much doing that? I know of one commuter Air Oregon (merged into horizon) that didn't pay its copilots! Although illegal now, is that the direction we're heading?

I doubt Albie15 would fly for Fedex for $30K/yr. And that could be a scenario for the future. Would Albie15 suggest aviation as a future for his kids? I'm not...way too much uncertainty. In the future, a pilot can look forward to a career goal of making $60000 as a senior captain at a LCC that has come in and undercut even Mesa in terms of labor costs. There are people out there who'd do it for that little, it is only a matter of time for some company to find them. Two years ago UAL78 (who's presence on this board has since vanished) said he would "fly for peanuts" to save his airline. In 02 Alaska was hiring 100 pilots. They had 10,000 Apps! That is a whole lotta pilots looking for work. I don't know the current #s because I don't have an app on file with them anymore.

As for the "Shopping at the Mall with Mommy" idea. We tried that too. My kids said they'd rather not go to the mall and see mommy and daddy more. But those are my kids.

Having said that Best flying jobs going right now...Fedex an UPS. But they can't employ all the pilots out there. I loved flying cargo at NWA.

I found this on another thread

It is gonna be funny when today's LCC pilots are called greedy by the next generation of pilots.

It couldn't be more true.

 

[Ty Webb]

80 hrs- with 11 straight days off? wow! Ty, you're my hero. Let's see 80 hrs x $61 =$4,880. Now let's multiply that by 12 mos. Looks like you'll be about $12,000 short of that 70K you've been spouting off about. I've been keeping my eye on you....all the way from the garden section at Home Depot! Oh...now I know why you're laughing while signing your check. Shut your "pie hole", nobody cares who you manipulate the controls for.

I said I dropped two days to get to 11 off in a row. Add those 11 hours, and throw in a mid-year anniversary to $66./ an hour, and you get . . . . .$70K.

Sorry your life is so miserable that you are spending it trying to figure out how much I am making. Want to know the square footage of my house, the location of my beach house and my wife's bra size, too?

Sounds to me like you need some serious help. . . . and if you don't get help from Ty Webb, get help somewhere.

 

[AlbieF15]

Ty,

Square footage of house in irrelevant, but now bra size?...That might actually be an interesting thead to start. Who's wives have the biggest boobs? Civilian or military? Are those boobs organized or non union? (bras or no bras?) Are those boobs perfectly natural, or did someone have to do a PAY FOR BOOBS, or PFB program? Is a push up bra a "type rating"....ie a PFB program in some eyes but just a job requirement in others minds?

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

Square footage of house in irrelevant, but now bra size?...That might actually be an interesting thead to start. Who's wives have the biggest boobs? Civilian or military? Are those boobs organized or non union? (bras or no bras?) Are those boobs perfectly natural, or did someone have to do a PAY FOR BOOBS, or PFB program? Is a push up bra a "type rating"....ie a PFB program in some eyes but just a job requirement in others minds?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Tell you what, Albie . . . I think we have to get together and set the ground rules for this new category of one-upmanship. I recommend the Florabama, but if you're closer to the EL Governor, that would work, too.

Regards,

TW

 

[C77MD80]

Hey Albie

I'm no longer married so I can't jump into the bra size thread but would agree that would be interesting. My dog on the other hand has some really big nads, he's uncut and those suckers really hang low! By the way he is civilian, they are all natural and he doesn't use a push up although for support I think that perhaps he needs it. He is in the union, get's involved a little bit, seems to be always sniffing around in other dogs business.

Anyone else?

 

[banned username 2]

Boulder Junction. My wife and her brothers are coordinating the details right now.

How about you?

Ty,

Check your PM's...

 

[LEROY]

Pfb Program

ROTFLMAO!! I would suggest the Florabama for a "PFB Summit" conference. Lotsa examples there!

 

[AMRCostUnit]

AAFlyer,

I have 12 years at AA (with 19 more to go unless age 60 changes) and am strongly considering departing the AMR fix for LUV. I look at my time to upgrade here at AA (currently 8 MORE years to BOTTOM reserve) and the comparative payrates to LUV with our cuts last year (went from 777 to 737 FO -- 43% cut) and it is a gamble I am probably willing to take. B Fund, 401K and a little A Fund would leave with me.

Now as far as getting out of aviation, I looked at that too. The only way to really make equivalent money is be in business for yourself and/or in sales. Last year I got involved in the mortgage business and man, if you can put together a network can you make the bones! I am working for a broker and get 50% of what I generate. (which isn't much) He grossed over $600k last year -- at 29 years old and 4 years in the business! I have a connection in a highline auto sales (BMW/MB) where the floor people do $100k. But it is sales. You have to be there and perform to make the money.

I have been looking to buy and turn some foreclosures; good money there but takes a lot of time and effort to prevent buying a lemon. I have been trading option futures and making some good returns but it is risky. And, get this, I talked to a guy who bought 8 (and don't laugh) moonwalkers! You know, those inflatable bounce houses for kids? Well, in my area they rent out for $200/day and he is booked solid for the summer. I laughed until I did the math. If I was not waiting for a LUV interview I probably be in the moonwalk business right now!

All of my engineer neighbors work like dogs day in and day out and don't get ahead. Promotion? 5% more pay and 100% more responsibility is what they get. I say if you are going to work that hard you might as well make the money for yourself instead of for CEO's.

I have been studying many angles since our debacle last year. Very interesting thread. The over-supply of pilots willing to fly for $20/hour (or for FREE out in Oregon as posted previously! Mama Mia!) has hurt our profession badly. Unfortunately the days of the AA DFW Braniff Lease event are long gone.

Reporting from ORD...

 

[SMMustang]

Here are a couple other from guys I've flown with in the past.

A guy I flew with had a frien that said, The future is shyt. No kiddin' crap. Had a friend that bought a load of Honey Buckets, whatever you want to call them and rents them out.

A pilot I flew with knew a guy who didn't do much, just enough to get by. One day he was driving around in a new truck. Pilot asked him how he got it. Turns out the guy is now a professional ebayer. Fri/Sat/Sun goes to sales, puts them up for bid on Monday, Ships all the stuff from the previous week on Tuesday in his brand new truck. Takes Wed/Thurs off.

 

[mooser]

I think all of you more senior pilots need to impress upon us junior guys if you run across any that don't understand why mesa flying 737"S or regoinals paying 50 seater pay to fly a 90 seater....


I am 22 and in my first Pool...Can't wait to pay my dues at the regionals then go to a LCC or Major and start a family...Don't blow it for the 17 or 18 year old thinking about sending in a app to UND or ER!!!

Mooser