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Screw this industry?

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VERY interesting thread. The problem with the airline career is that double-edged sword, the seniority system. For good or bad you tend to be locked into the long-term deal. 15 years ago, United, Delta, American, USAir, and others, were premier outfits. Who could have guessed at the current catastrophe in the industry? I guess we should have looked closer at Eastern, Braniff I - IV, and above all Pan Am, that glorious, historic airline. They were raped, pillaged, sacked, mismanaged to the grave. But would it happen to us? Hell no.

Our pockets have been picked and our a$$es greased for the final rape, all except Delta, and my gut feel is that they will follow suit. My worthless opinion is that even if the majors begin to make billions, we'll never return to the halcion years of the 90's, pay-wise.

My crystal ball prediction is this: Schedules will continue to deteriorate, rigs will be ravaged, and the WHOPPR scheduling computers at each major carrier will continue to churn grotesque schedules, all in pursuit of the almight "efficiency" quotient. Anyone with a few years has seen pathetic scheduling done by software with little human intervention. You can put two lines side by side and just laugh, because both suck royally, and a bit of hand massage could turn two poo lines into decent ones, but it might cost the company an extra $7 in TAFB or some other B.S. rig.

New guys and strivers - Realize that the novelty will fade. Pilots are not admired, they are bitched at by drunk businessmen. They further bitch about a firm landing at Burbank, not understanding that stopping distance is critical. Flight attendants whine incessantly. The human body is not made to function at 3:30AM above the Amazon basin on the way to Sao Paulo. Nor is it designed to remain seated and relatively motionless for so long. Older pilots get weird medical issues, funky brain cancers (probably from radiation), chronic sinus disease from years of scar tissue buildup. Anyone with years could go on forever with a list like this. Piloting is not for everyone.

On the other hand, everyone also has the joy of a great trip with fun cockpit chemistry, challenging and interesting flying, layovers that are simply a blast, and blocks of time at home that allow the pursuit of hobbies and family. I know several doctors and lawyers with thriving practices become airline guys.

So search your soul, do the math, and make an early life decision. Like every other profession, there's the good, the bad, and the frankly a$$-ugly aspects.
 
Ty Webb said:
These "North Woods" are along the Upper Peninsula area south of Lake Superior along the Canadian border.

Where are you gonna be smokin' your catch, up that way, or up in Maine?
Northern WI about 20 miles from the U.P.... You gonna be in MI or WI?
 
I've done my share of 350+ hours TAFB and it sucked. Right now my schedule has about 120 hours TAFB doing locals. I live in my home base and I really enjoy my job. I grew up working all kinds of manual labor jobs and flying by far beats washing windows or digging ditches. But like I said before I've done the 350+ hours TAFB lines, commuting, not having the seniority to have the days off I wanted, not making enough money to pay the bills etc., etc. Flying can really be a miserable job. It can also be great. Being home with my family is my number one priority and it's working out well right now. Living in domicile, seniority, and being lucky with a healthy airline all help. I hope you all can find the right balance for yourselves. For those of you who are leaving the industry, best of luck to you.
 
SkyWestCRJPilot said:
.......................being lucky with a healthy airline ......................
Roger that.

The only determiner of success. Luck.

enigma
 
Well then I musta hit the jackpot! I have a 9-5 job that is better than the commuter job I had. I'd go back to my Major Airline job, but what I have is a whole lot better than that commuter job I had. Being a commuter pilot is a grind. Do I miss flying...not enough to go back to a commuter. As an IMA AF Reservist, I can work as many days as I want up to about 290, I can make as much as ~60K...if I want to! If I don't want to go in, I don't have to. I just don't get paid, and that is ok sometimes. Over the last year I've worked about 100 days and my wife has worked about 250. I'm a stay at home dad on the days I don't go in. We got an email from the union about a furloughed guy that went to work 9-5 as a financial planner and absolutely fell in love with it and said he won't be coming back.

Bottom line, there are some gigs that are better than being an airline pilot depending on your personality and life circumstances.
 
Falcon Capt said:
Northern WI about 20 miles from the U.P.... You gonna be in MI or WI?

Boulder Junction. My wife and her brothers are coordinating the details right now.

How about you?
 
Great thread. Lots to ponder.

I'm a happy go lucky type, but I'm with the Italian and Ty on this one. Granted, I am at a major with a good (hopefully better soon) contract and I have an ANG gig. Disclaimers aside...

Yes...I miss my family terribly when I am away. My middle girl used to say she "hated FedEX", or said so until Daddy explained that if she wanted me to stay home that was fine, but she couldn't go shopping with mommy in the mall this week if I stayed home. Once I put where the money comes from into the equation, they understand a bit more. My biggest regret is never that I am not home with them, but rather they aren't there with ME to share the new sites and interesting things I get to see when out on a trip.

My oldest girl wrote a long paper and won a class contest on her hero. It was...guess who...ME...because she knows about all the military work I had to do during her life, and she respects the fact 8 days a month or more I'm wearing a green bag into the base and WORKING on those days off my contract guarantees. Yes...she misses me...but she also understands that those sacrifices military guys make keep us free. Knowing she is proud of me is worth a lot more than the odd day off here and there...

However, I don't work ALL the time. Like Ty...I've also had some great experiences on those off days. Especially in the summer, I love being home on weekdays when there are fewer people and boats out on the water. I actually prefer doing weekend airline flying and having my weekdays off. I have a physician buddy who gets a 1/2 day Wednesday and the weekends off, period. His 3 weeks annual vacation cannot be adjusted into Friday-Monday off type of deals which give him a 4 day weekend, but must be used up in 5 day increments. He's home every night, but has to drive to/from work every day spending about 45 minutes a day on the road. He is jealous when I say I will drop a trip and come over that week or trade off a day of work--he has none of that flexibility. I like being able to bid lines that protect those days off that I want off--kids plays, gym meets, etc are a lot more important to me than specific holidays or weekends. I also appreciate the chance to work extra if there is a bill to pay, or drop a trip here and there if time off is more important at the moment. How many professions let you call in and say "I won't be in Wednesday...just dock a day's pay from my salary?"

I also use my free time and layover periods to work on a side business. Lots of board folks have used my prep services, and I actually enjoy the chance on layovers to catch up and organize projects. I might have to skip a few beers with the crew, and I never watch TV on the road, but I use that time to contact clients, compose emails, and deal with day to day details of the business. I've known other guys who sell pharamacuticals or broker airplanes or trade stocks or swing real estate deals. How many jobs give you that kind of second career options?

The other perk I have at Fedex (you wanted company names...here it is) working at a major and at the ANG is my wife now stays at home with the kids. Yes...I work hard, but knowing she is there to tend to the kids needs makes a lot of my sacrifices worth the trouble. Guys getting started at a regional probably couldn't afford that. Then again, guys who go to UPT in the ANG and go full time a few years might be able to--but you end up paying your dues either to the regionals or to Uncle Sam along the way in this business if you are typical. Pick your poison--either has its pros/cons.

Once you get to the big iron, if you really want 9-5, you might consider training or airline management jobs. Not at a major, or doing corporate work? How about working at flight safety or simulfight or similar gigs? There isn't a job out there for everyone who wants one, but if you love flying BUT want to be home every night there is an option. I cannot speak for other carriers, but FedEx has a variety of out and backs (both day and night) that are popular with domicile based crews. If you say "I don't want to live at my domicile AND I don't want to sleep away from home" then maybe you do need to investigate some options. However, if you come to FedEx you can fly 14 days a pop going around the world or you can put you kids to bed at 8, go to bed yourself, then go launch at 0400 and be back home by 1100 or so three nights a week. You'll be there when your kids get home from school.

I'll say this for my airline gig--I don't take it home with me. When I am home--I may be stressed from household projects or other self induced worries, but its not paperwork, promotions, upcoming inspections, etc that keep me from enjoying and savoring the day. Like another poster, my dad was a defense contractor, and I saw first hand all the stress he endured in that career. Since I never had the musical talent to be a rock star, , and the porno industry doesn't seem to be in need of 40ish guys with pasty white skin and thinning hair, I think I really am a very lucky guy to get to fly for a living...and I plan on hanging here as long as the Good Lord lets me keep my health and my smile.
 
Albie is right on.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that if you live in an area that isn't expensive and has good public schools, you may not have to work your sack off.

I live in a town that has great public schools, Gulf of Mexico beaches a short drive away, no crime, and 6 flights a day to ATL on my own carrier . . . and the taxes are so low, I have to laugh as I sign the check . . . . maybe that has more to do with my happiness than the name brand of the airline I manipulate the controls for.

Quality of life . . . . it means different things to different people.
 
80 hrs- with 11 straight days off? wow! Ty, you're my hero. Let's see 80 hrs x $61 =$4,880. Now let's multiply that by 12 mos. Looks like you'll be about $12,000 short of that 70K you've been spouting off about. I've been keeping my eye on you....all the way from the garden section at Home Depot! Oh...now I know why you're laughing while signing your check. Shut your "pie hole", nobody cares who you manipulate the controls for.
 
ATRCAPT said:
...I should have been a rock star...
I was thinking of becoming a Proctologist, butt,......:)
 

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