Scope Defeating Freedom Airlines

[Jetsnake]

I am so impressed with how Lorenzo managed to clone himself, just remember that if your going to fly for this sheep herder you better get yourself a good razor and clippers, cause I can see he has an unlimited supply of velcro gloves and no K-Y jelly.
Baaaaaaaaaaah!!!

Jetsnake

 

[BeechScrub]

The pay and work rules for Freedom have not been announced yet. Mesa is not going to take captains out of seniority and PFT has never existed at Mesa. Jonathan Ornstein has described the contract that they are putting together for Freedom as having "all of the best attributes of the Skywest contract." With that being said, many Mesa pilots have suggested for some time now that their new contract (under negotiation now, sort of) should look very much like Skywest's contract.

BeechScrub

 

[typhoonpilot]

Pay for Training

BeechScrub


Mesa almost definitely had pay for training in the early 1990s. As I recall it was something like $10,000 for the privilege of being a new hire F.O. on a Beech 1900. I am glad to hear that they stopped it.

I had better not get started on the rest of this thread because I am still mad at Mesa for what they did to WestAir. For those Mesa pilots too young to remember it might be worth your time to find out about as it will have a direct bearing on Mr. Ornstein's strategy vis-a-vi Mesa/Freedom.

 

[BeechScrub]

PFT at Mesa?

Please explain how PFT was used at Mesa in the early 90's. This is news to me.

BeechScrub

 

[typhoonpilot]

PFT

BeechScrub:

I'm going to need some help from the bleechers on this one. I do recall it pretty clearly though, just don't have any links or historical information to back it up with. Essentially you paid for your new hire training when hired as an F.O. It was around $10,000. The year was 1992. Surely there is a, now, senior captain there that would know the details.

 

[Gobi Gred]

As a SkyWest pilot I'm glad to see that many of you look at our airline favorably. In the time I've been here it has been and continues to be a great place to work. I would also agree that we have a good management team that most of the time listens to our concerns. But our "contract" is anything but. Without legal representation our contract is nothing but a handshake deal. It has no legal standing whatsoever. Someone could come in tomorrow and literally take away what we have overnight and we would have no legal recourse. Flying without a legal binding contract, and no certificate, medical protection is frankly, scary. In my opinion the dynamics of this industry simply warrant that a pilot group have representation.

 

[nimtz]

Beechscrub:

Jonathan Ornstein has described the contract that they are putting together for Freedom as having "all of the best attributes of the Skywest contract." With that being said, many Mesa pilots have suggested for some time now that their new contract (under negotiation now, sort of) should look very much like Skywest's contract.

So you're telling me all you want to shoot for at Mesa and Freedom Air is Skywest's contract?!? Boy the managment people of the regional airline industry are so glad to have guys like you around who are just SO thrilled to be flying an airplane that pay is just relative! As a worker you get compensated based on the revenue your work produces. That Skywest payscale comes up loads short and thats with flying smaller airplanes then what Freedom Air would.
My union is right now in contract trying to bring this pay more equal to the revenue we produce. However, we won't ever suceed if guys like you are going to act happy with a slightly better status quo. That's all Mr. Orenstein wants to do, because he lacks ANY vision besides using cheap labor, just like Mr. Lorenzo. So you go settle for Skywest's contract and be happy being paid like cheap immigrant labor!

 

[STEVE CANYON]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

THE CONTRACT


WHEN TWO PEOPLE MEET, AN AGREEMENT MADE. THE TERMS OF THE DEAL, THE PLANS ARE LAID.

EACH ONE GIVES THEIR SEAL BY THE GRIP OF THEIR HAND. ON THEIR WORD OF HONOR THEY TAKE A STAND.

THESE DAYS THERE ARE CONTRACTS ALL WRITTEN OUT. SO THERE IS NOTHING TO DISPUTE ABOUT.

BUT IF A PERSON WON'T STAND ON HIS WORD UNDERSTOOD. A PIECE OF PAPER WON'T MAKE IT GOOD.

1994

 

[Soulfly]

Folks, lets get some facts straight.

Earl, your reference to Mesa ALPA not accepting the companys pay cut and its correlation to the furloughs is incorrect.

The VP of Flight Ops stated that the number of furloughs would be the same regardless if the pilots agreed to the paycut or not. FACT.

We requested the company show a financial need to the pilot group regarding the pay cut. A two sentence written response that did not show that need. FACT.

The company showed a profit for the fiscal year 2001(pre-tax adjustments). FACT.

Your logic seems to indicate that during a profitable year employee groups should give up pay whenever management asks. CURIOUS.

Freedom is being created to alleviate the problems created by scope restrictions in the USAirways Pilots contract.OK.

If this is true, then a non-union airline is not neccesary. We operate two certificates right now with one seniority list. Not one thing prevents management from adding another certificate under that same list.FACT.

Skywest does not have a contract. They have an agreement with management. This may be changed at anytime. Pay rates, work rules, etc....FACT.

JO could offer a great package for Freedom pilots. $110/hr. Captain pay. Two months or weeks later, say the company isn't profitable, $50/hr Captain pay, no recourse whatsoever. FACT.


The plain,cold,hard truth.

 

[Boeingman]

AngryBoeingman,
I've been looking for petite, mid-twenty something, latin, female & since you're in the "flesh trade" business I figured if you had one to sell....

Sell? Flesh trade?

Sorry, I can't help you. Try an escort service in your local area or downtown street corner.

There is also the mail order bride option.

 

[Boeingman]

Thank you for defending my right to free speech, and I will accept your thanks for defending your right to be a socialist. /B]

Nice try, but I think sub consciously, you're talking about yourself.

If you had it your way we all would be working under a socialist type work environment and pay structure. That way your feelings wouldn't get hurt right?

 

[surplus1]

Jonathan Ornstein has described the contract that they are putting together for Freedom as having "all of the best attributes of the Skywest contract." With that being said, many Mesa pilots have suggested for some time now that their new contract (under negotiation now, sort of) should look very much like Skywest's contract.

BeechScrub,

Often the "devil is in the details". Stangely, JO didn't do all those great things for pilots at the airline he was with before Mesa.

More importantly, Skywest has no contract. They have a policy manual that the company is able to change, however and whenever it chooses. Skywest pilots are "employees at will".

Very few pilots with experience in the industry would consider that arrangement to be in their best interests. While JO may be a nice guy today, what will he be tomorrow? When he leaves, will the guy that takes his place do the same things?

If he really means to do so right by Mesa pilots, then what prevents him from recognizing the union at Freedom and making the offer to them?

Don't by a pig in a poke.