SCABS and the industry.

[717pilot]

Maybe the other AIRTRAN pilots know..I think there are only a few left.....

 

[FLB717]

Lets all say it together. AirTran is scab central, they have so many (30?, maybe) in the group of 850. Lets all use AirTran as a reference because no other REAL airline has any scabs, right? Oh, my GOD Buffy! I mean that’s why ALPA forgave CAL, they only have 800+ that they brought back into the fold for dues money. All is forgiven and past sayith Capt. Worthless. He11 it’s not like UAL has any, opps. At this point more pressing matters than this circular argument is crossing my mind. Like feeding the cat. I can tell you from experience, a strike is useless, far more is lost than gained. DON’T leave the cockpit that is when you LOOSE control. Heck taxi slow, run the APU, a lot. But don’t walk out it causes to much loss, in my opinion. But what would I know about it. $42 bucks a barrel should be of far more interest that 1989.

FL717,
You maybe senior, but I'm better lookin according to the F/A's (women), even more so after a few drinks.

 

[FL717]

FL717,
You maybe senior, but I'm better lookin according to the F/A's (women), even more so after a few drinks.

Actually it was 717pilot who stated he is senior to me... which is true. He's gonna upgrade and bump me down a number, and I'm gonna be forced to send Guido the Killer Clown Pimp after him.

I won't bother to respond to this thread after this post because the couple idiots that have the most to say, make completely wrong assumptions on just about everything they say, so how can you lend creedence, and engage in any of their opinions.

What gets me laughing at these fools, is the loudmouths that get on here and talk sh!t and make posts with name calling references to every scab or simply a name listed in some "ALPA" sponsored scablist... (now theres a ringing endorsement) , people they do not even know, or know NOTHING about, but can't back it up by posting THEIR own name. If your gonna talk big about specific named pilots (scablist)then impress us by growing some reals b@lls, and post your name here instead of hiding behind some anonymous user name.

As far as the Eastern pilots on the ALPA scablist, I will not make that my problem. I wasn't even a 121 pilot until the late 90's, so what relevance does this have to me in 2004. I judge each one individually on a case by case basis, and it certainly will not be based on some "list" put out by an organization that has no real bearing on my union right now.

The fact is, many of these "scabs" built this organization that is now AirTran Airways, and built it with dedication and hard WORK, and they did it without any help from their "ALPA" brethren, who in my opinion let some of these people down.

Finally I will add that with over 15,000 pilot resumes on file at AirTran, it appears that many of these supposed "Scab Haters" seemed to have gotten over their anger and hatred pretty quick.
These are the type people you really need to watch your back with.

 

[scabseeker]

AirTran gets you started off right. One of your Indoc instructors is a scab and my friend did his IOE with another Eastern scab. This guy even scabbed with his dad at EAL! (nice family values)

You may claim you don't have that many but at least you get your newhires indoctrinated by a scab...classic!

 

[Prof. Joe Vee]

AirTran gets you started off right. One of your Indoc instructors is a scab and my friend did his IOE with another Eastern scab. This guy even scabbed with his dad at EAL! (nice family values)

You may claim you don't have that many but at least you get your newhires indoctrinated by a scab...classic!

Look what they did to Ty.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by scabseeker
AirTran gets you started off right. One of your Indoc instructors is a scab and my friend did his IOE with another Eastern scab. This guy even scabbed with his dad at EAL! (nice family values)

You may claim you don't have that many but at least you get your newhires indoctrinated by a scab...classic!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hmmm...let's see here... your friend is ON at AT and is probably flying the 717, and you are......NOT on and what is that you are flying.....a C-340? Wait, an SF-340? I am not sure....which one is larger?

 

[FL717]

Perhaps. But will you be able to count on them when you need strength in unity?

I can answer your question without hesitation...... YES.

People around here can speculate and self righteously pontificate all they want.

Here is the proof: After 9-11, AirTran management came to our pilot union and stated that the pilots would have to take a cut in pay (both hourly rate AND monthly guarantee) and take a cut in retirement benefits. If the union refused, then they would start furloughing pilots. BTW - the pilots who were eligible to vote on this.... WOULD NOT have been the ones furloughed.

Well the vote was taken, and it voted by a HUGE margin to take the concessions rather than furlough the bottom non-voting pilots.

BTW - many of those senior pilots at AirTran who voted so that me and my peers could keep our jobs, are ex-EAL and are on the ALPA scab list.

Kinda shoots a hole in that "out for themselves" theory some of you have around here.

I will always choose to base my opinion on what I know, not what a few UNIMFORMED non affected people think.

Okay... I'm done. I said I wasn't going to post anymore... so flame away all you want. I'm so much a better person, than lowering myself to this wasted ridiculous hypothetical hate driven drivel. C-ya.

 

[scoreboard]

finally a sensable answer, thank you

No. It's a very simple question. You feed your family, but you don't do it off the backs of your bretheren. You do whatever you have to do, but you don't cross the line. The real question is how far are you willing to go to "feed your family"? Would you rob a bank? Kill someone? Take food off of your bretheren's family's table? Cross the line and volumes will be told about not only your character, but your understanding of what really benefits you in the long run.


__________________

Huge, That makes sense, and was what I was looking for. Gees dudes...

 

[Soupbone]

I enjoy reading post on the site, but I rarely post myself. I just enjoy the discussions--good and bad. BUT,

Are we really to believe that crossing a picket line is like committing a felony or murder. Does anyone really compare the two. I pray that I never have to worry about making a decision like this, but please don't make a comparison to feeding a person's family vs. taking a person's life!

 

[Clyde]

Scabs in the industry? Yes, there are still plenty of PFT'ers from the early to mid 90's still in the industry.

 

[nimtz]

I can tell you from experience, a strike is useless, far more is lost than gained. DON’T leave the cockpit that is when you LOOSE control. Heck taxi slow, run the APU, a lot. But don’t walk out it causes to much loss, in my opinion. But what would I know about it. $42 bucks a barrel should be of far more interest that 1989.

So did the UAL guys LOSE CONTROL back in '85? Seems to me that they saved the profession from entering into the B-Scale days we are headed towards today. What about the Northwest guys in '98? Every labor contract is unique and sometimes walking the line is the only option left. Question is whether or not the individual has the character and pride not to cross it.

 

[Publishers]

Feed

Strength in unity for what and where is there any unity in any of these groups.

Let's see-- feed my family or fight someone elses fight that I have no interest in and do not believe is right or in anyones interest.

 

[FLB717]

If the dollors you gain far out weigh the loss from you having no pay, passenger going to someone else and the companies savings being reduced (the ability to operate AND meet you demands) then head on out. But I can tell you I won't walk from my current company, because we would not survive a CMR or NWA type strike. I wont kill the Goose to get an extra egg today. I am not wiley Coyote jumping off a cliff just to show you I have no fear of gravity. Anyone want to take shots or make comments thats me or my position thats ok. But if you have not been on the edge of self help or used it, your arm chair comments have little effect on me. I would rather fight from the left or right seat then along the terminal with a paper slogan. Costing DAL 700 million so you can feed your kids and buy a car that was made in the last decade and the hiring is going great is a good reason to walk. Walking out to pay for your third vacation this year, and you work 12 or 15 days, is stupid. My .000002 cents

 

[scabseeker]

Hmmm...let's see here... your friend is ON at AT and is probably flying the 717, and you are......NOT...

Nope I'm not with Air Tran and I have no animosity toward anyone there except the scabs. I am merely pointing out that AT may not have an abundance of scabs but they are in high positions which makes me a little ill.

BTW, they called me for an interview in 2000 I turned them down and do not regret my decision.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

but please don't make a comparison to feeding a person's family vs. taking a person's life!

I didn't.
I asked where you are willing to draw the line on what you would do to "feed your family". Where you draw the line is the line that ultimately defines your values. Are you willing to:

-drive 1 mph over the speed limit
-drive 6 mph over the speed limit
-drive 16 mph over the speed limit
-drive 36 mph over the speed limit
-ask someone how they are doing when you don't care
-tell your wife her fat a$$ doesn't look fat in that dress
-not tell your company they overpaid you by 12 dollars one month
-not tell your company they overpaid you by 1200 dollars
-not tell your company they overpaid you by 12000 dollars
-steal a ham from your neighbor to feed your family
-steal from a stranger
-kill someone

I'll leave it to you to insert disrupting organized labor actions that are voted upon by a group that you are a member of which are meant to be in the best interest of the majority of the group. I would no sooner cross a line than kill someone. That's not the same as saying one equals the other.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Re: Feed

Strength in unity for what and where is there any unity in any of these groups.

Let's see-- feed my family or fight someone elses fight that I have no interest in and do not believe is right or in anyones interest.

So if you've been in negotiations for four years, and make 50% what your peers make, and you management team continually violates your contract and laughs at your negotiating team, and you've got ten years seniority invested ... you're going to consider it "someone else's fight?"

 

[PurpleInMEM]

Scabs....got no time for'em

I've worked in two other heavily unionized industries over the years. One of which I'm still involved with on a part-time basis (I hold two AFL-CIO union cards, ALPA and HHCWU). We as pilots have to get over this "we're white collar professionals" "treat EVERYONE with respect" shiny, happy, people bull$hit. In my other life the only time you'd see a scab on the property after a strike is if he was caught in the crossfire and didn't make it out alive. We all expect scum-bag management types to hire replacement workers during a strike, but afterwards these douche bags are sent packing. But not in aviation, oh no. In our own unions we accept them like it never happened. In my view this is why our current "association" is not a labor union in the traditional sense. We don't support each other mutually, we don't OPENLY share the scab list and we definitely don't make it VERY uncomfortable for those who feel it necessary to back stab other pilots.

Am I advocating a hostile work environment towards scabs, you bet I am. Is it legal, I really don't care. The typical scab argument is "I have a mortgage" "I have kids to feed", yada yada yada (respects to Seinfeld). Well guess what? So does everyone else. My last strike sent me from my nice comfortable hospital job to working at a convenience store and driving a school bus. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. The only power you have in this "relationship" between management and labor is your ability to walk out. Luckily in most other industries you can do this when the clock strikes midnight, but again not in aviation. It's VITAL to the national economy. BULL!!

Imagine this...a contract amendable date comes up, negotiations are already underway, and the second the clock strikes midnight the pilots simply don't go to work. What would happen??? Well some judge would fine the union, jail the union leaders, make all kinds of threats....but ultimately if the pilots didn't go to work, the people or boxes wouldn't get moved, period!!! I've experienced this first hand, judicial intervention and all. We didn't go back to work and within a day the company was back to negotiating in "good faith". Scabs do nothing but undermine this tool of ours, limited that it already is.

It's time for us as pilots to realize that we're nothing more than contract employees providing a service to the company that writes the check. Collectively we do better together than one-on-one. Get what you can, when you can, any way you can. Can't stand the heat; go find something else to do. All scabs should get gonorrhea and die.

Now…where’s the Tylenol?

 

[:-)]

I didn't.
I asked where you are willing to draw the line on what you would do to "feed your family". Where you draw the line is the line that ultimately defines your values. Are you willing to:

-drive 1 mph over the speed limit
-drive 6 mph over the speed limit
-drive 16 mph over the speed limit
-drive 36 mph over the speed limit
-ask someone how they are doing when you don't care
-tell your wife her fat a$$ doesn't look fat in that dress
-not tell your company they overpaid you by 12 dollars one month
-not tell your company they overpaid you by 1200 dollars
-not tell your company they overpaid you by 12000 dollars
-steal a ham from your neighbor to feed your family
-steal from a stranger
-kill someone

I'll leave it to you to insert disrupting organized labor actions that are voted upon by a group that you are a member of which are meant to be in the best interest of the majority of the group. I would no sooner cross a line than kill someone. That's not the same as saying one equals the other.

Did you hear the one about the rich old man who asked the beautiful blond for sex? It goes like this:

Old Man: Will you make love to me?
Blond: No
O M : Will you make love to me for one million dollars?
B : Well, I guess maybe I would like to make love to you.
O M : well, here's a twenty. Now lets's do it.
B : Twenty, What kind of girl do you think I am?
O M : We've already established that, now we're just haggling over price.

 

[Ty Webb]

Sheesh. We do have a few "street scabs" who got themselves into Management's good graces here, . . . but I would be willing to bet that is not uncommon at other carriers, after all, we are talking about Management, right?

Regardless, If you had taken the job, you'd be making around $120K as a fourth year Captain, and probably be seeing a lot of familiar faces in your right seat, arriving from your previous employers.

Instead, you are doing what, again?

 

[scabseeker]

Instead, you are doing what, again?

You don't want to know...