Scab List is Real

[DC8Driver]

He lied to you he is a fleet qual. scab!

There are a hand full of scabs at United that are in good standing at ALPA the vast majority are not and are treated accordingly.

I have seen documents and I think you lie or or misinformed. Prove what your saying. I've seen the date he started class and the date the the strike was over. There is no way he flew a trip.

You've got to cross a picket line to be a scab.

 

[Mercyful Fate]

All else aside, having lists with people's social security numbers posted all over the internet is trouble waiting to happen...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

1.) Justify? To who? He was hired by UAL. They "Justified it"

2.) You should know you pay a percentage of what you make, not what the union thinks your making.

3.) They wanted the difference in PAY.

4.) I would have told them "No" also.

1. No, justify what you state here. Facts speak for themselves.

2. Your reasoning wasn't clear.

3. Well, that would negate him screwing other pilots. But I suspect ALPA, if true, wanted the wages returned to UAL. Not ALPA.

4. This is very clear.

Who is this individual... and what domicile is he in?

 

[DC8Driver]

1. No, justify what you state here. Facts speak for themselves.

2. Your reasoning wasn't clear.

3. Well, that would negate him screwing other pilots. But I suspect ALPA, if true, wanted the wages returned to UAL. Not ALPA.

4. This is very clear.

Who is this individual... and what domicile is he in?

1.) Justify it to who? To you? Why? If ALPA had a legal case it would have been justified in court. It wasn't so I guess it didn't need to be. What facts are you talking about? Because his name appears on a list?

2.) My reasoning? You pay dues as a % of income earned. Not reported, actual income. What part of that is hard to understand? Agency shop. Ever heard of it? Are you really an ALPA member?

3.) You suspect, assume or what ever you want to call it, your wrong. ALPA wanted the money.

4.) I'm glad.

5.) I do not have his permission to use his name. What is your name,what airline do you work for and what domicle are you in? When you give me that I will contact him for permission to use his name.

 

[CessnaFan]

Sadly, it is not. It is a disgrace though, who know how accurate the data is, and what about posting someones ss #? DOB? For the world to see??? Too bad I'm not lucky enough to have my ss # and DOB put out there by some yoyo, makes a nice lawsuit.

Oh, and if you were on that list by mistake, how do you get off it? Looks like TSA nonsense....

I'm not standing up for scabs in any way, I just think that the whole idea of a "list" is ridiculous.

duh? you thought it was a joke?

 

[Basil]

How many Captains carry this list with them and check it prior to allowing each Jumpseater aboard? How many have denied boarding to someone on that list?

I used to JS quite a bit on WN years ago, but never saw anyone pull out a Master Scab List. The only list I ever saw was to comfirm my company had a JS agreement with them.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Sadly, it is not. It is a disgrace though, who know how accurate the data is, and what about posting someones ss #? DOB? For the world to see??? Too bad I'm not lucky enough to have my ss # and DOB put out there by some yoyo, makes a nice lawsuit.

Oh, and if you were on that list by mistake, how do you get off it? Looks like TSA nonsense....

I'm not standing up for scabs in any way, I just think that the whole idea of a "list" is ridiculous.

I thought those numbers were emp. numbers and not SSNs. Wouldn't make much sense to post someone's SSN and DOB on a document like that. Besides it only looks like it's the last 5 or six digits. If you can find out the rest of the numbers you can find out a lot more with less work. The interwebs are less secure than you think.

 

[Cardinal]

Erm....We're worried about a scab's identity being stolen why? YGBSM. They stole your career, over!

The reason for including the SSN is because many scabs have legally changed their name or go by a pseuodnym in the hopes that their sins will be forgotten.

 

[414Flyer]

I agree with your above statement, but if you seriously believe in "chemtrails," your head could use some fixin'

I do not believe in chemtrails, I have joked on here for years about those nutcases. I provided the link here for sheer enjoyment if people want to go there and mess with them

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Erm....We're worried about a scab's identity being stolen why? YGBSM. They stole your career, over!

The reason for including the SSN is because many scabs have legally changed their name or go by a pseuodnym in the hopes that their sins will be forgotten.

Your missing the point...why give some idiot or illegal immigrant the ammunition to get their hands on this information to do stuff that can have an effect on you? Great, now YGBSM

 

[sunlitpath]

This Master Scab List is active and available on the World Wide Web. That is how I discovered it. If someone has an interest in removing it from public view they should seek a method for doing so. However, I have a feeling that it will resurface through some other source or group. In fact, the list may already be available on other sites. Considering that many of you were already aware of this list, the issues of privacy regarding the list should not be new to you. Those of us who were not aware of the list: now we know.

 

[sunlitpath]

Services are widely available for individuals to protect themselves from identity fraud, such as Life Lock and Identity Guard. if someone is concerned about this issue, they should contact one of these services. They can use the money they made from scabbing to pay for it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

1.) Justify it to who? To you? Why? If ALPA had a legal case it would have been justified in court. It wasn't so I guess it didn't need to be. What facts are you talking about? Because his name appears on a list?

2.) My reasoning? You pay dues as a % of income earned. Not reported, actual income. What part of that is hard to understand? Agency shop. Ever heard of it? Are you really an ALPA member?

3.) You suspect, assume or what ever you want to call it, your wrong. ALPA wanted the money.

4.) I'm glad.

5.) I do not have his permission to use his name. What is your name,what airline do you work for and what domicle are you in? When you give me that I will contact him for permission to use his name.

Your cicular logic is failing you... first you don't have to say you are not obligated to justify the fact that he was paid CA wages, then in your #3, you state... "cause I said so...."

If you don't have permission to use his name then perhaps you should reconsider what you post... if you can't reference it or provide information so that others can verify what yo say... it doesn't mean much. The burden of proof is not on me to reconcile want you say is truth. It is..... on you.

 

[DC8Driver]

Your cicular logic is failing you... first you don't have to say you are not obligated to justify the fact that he was paid CA wages, then in your #3, you state... "cause I said so...."

If you don't have permission to use his name then perhaps you should reconsider what you post... if you can't reference it or provide information so that others can verify what yo say... it doesn't mean much. The burden of proof is not on me to reconcile want you say is truth. It is..... on you.

REZ are you stupid? or 12 years old? I posted what I know to be true. You don't like it? OK. Why don't you prove me wrong if you so sure.

I related a story to you that I know the details of very well. It was proven to me. He has no problem relating this story or having me relate this story. I don't have his permission to use his name nor do I think I need to. But, I said I would get that permission if you were willing to use your real name, since it is important to you to know his info. No response from you but to give me advice as to what I should post. Grow up.

Your the one that doesn't understand how union dues are paid.

I asked if your an ALPA member...No response from you. I am an ALPA member in good standing.

You want my friends info but not willing to post yours.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

REZ are you stupid? or 12 years old? I posted what I know to be true. You don't like it? OK. Why don't you prove me wrong if you so sure.

I am not the only one who has called your post into question. Here is a basic... belief doesn't equal truth.

I related a story to you that I know the details of very well. It was proven to me. He has no problem relating this story or having me relate this story. I don't have his permission to use his name nor do I think I need to. But, I said I would get that permission if you were willing to use your real name, since it is important to you to know his info. No response from you but to give me advice as to what I should post. Grow up.

As I said the burden of proof is on you...

Your the one that doesn't understand how union dues are paid.

I asked if your an ALPA member...No response from you. I am an ALPA member in good standing.

You want my friends info but not willing to post yours.

Your "story" is in question..... I've got the UAL scab list up on my computer... give me a clue....

 

[DC8Driver]

I am not the only one who has called your post into question. Here is a basic... belief doesn't equal truth.



As I said the burden of proof is on you...



Your "story" is in question..... I've got the UAL scab list up on my computer... give me a clue....

Your not understanding basic union principals leave you not credible.

The burden of proof is on you. Prove your not a wannabe.

You choose not to believe my post. Great. I choose to believe your not qualified to make that judgement.

I just figured it out......You have 11,000 posts. You don't work, you post on the internet. I see you post alot on flightsims.com also. Is that the "Virtual ALPA"? LOLOLOL

I'll be glad to provide you with all the proof you need. You prove to me your qualified to understand it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Suddenly your post isn't about facts, but me....

 

[DC8Driver]

Suddenly your post isn't about facts, but me....

Exactly. You showed everyone how little you know.

 

[DC8Driver]

I went back and looked at a few of REZ O. Lewshun's posts.

I want to apologize to everyone for wasting thier time.

REZ spews forth about anything and everything and as far as I can tell, knows nothing about airlines, airline pilots or the economy. This took me all of 5 minutes and there are over 11,000posts....OMG this guy is sooooo full of sh^t.

Please forgive me for wasting your time with this thread.

 

[Mr. Bean]

What do you talk about when they are on your jumpseat?

We'd talk about whatever we ended up talking about. Or not. Sometimes I'm chatty, other times, not so much.

Or, I guess, we could talk about the times a union squeezed just a bit too hard, and the goose died. Which could segue nicely into a discussion about the continued decline of union membership, and the sweetheart legislative deals intended to reverse that decline. We could talk about how unions too often think it's 1930, or 1950, and how they might reinvent themselves to increase their relevance. Eventually we might even discuss how abstractions, words like 'management' or 'labor', can, because the word is not the thing, cause us to percieve things incorrectly. And that might eventually lead to a discussion of how useful abstractions are when you intend to do something crummy to another person. Just label them something undesireable, de-humanize them, and then you can justify pretty much anything you'd like to do to them with a clear conscience! Oh, there's loads to talk about!

Of course, while jumpseating, I can't remember a Captain ever pulling out some list to see if I, or anyone else, was a 'scab'. Perhaps my views on the matter aren't so unusual, after all.

And a question for you, Rez: Who's the most important guy at an airline? Put another way: Who has the most important job?

 

[acpilot]

I'm not even an airline pilot, and I've known the scab list was real for a looooong time.

Me either. I assumed that everyone just knew about it.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Where else would we keep the names of those who care so little about others?

 

[sunlitpath]

Wow, some of you guys are really smart for knowing that the scab list was real, before the rest of us knew it was real. Gosh and golly, you should work for Barack Obama or something super cool and neato like that...

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Wow, some of you guys are really smart for knowing that the scab list was real, before the rest of us knew it was real. Gosh and golly, you should work for Barack Obama or something super cool and neato like that...

Maybe we do.

 

[AIRBORNEAVENGER]

How Many of You Have Actually Been on Strike?

I have. Please do not sugarcoat the process of walking away from your job. I walked the line when Comair went on strike. It meant a lot to stand for what you believed was right after years of hoping for a fair contract.

Having said that and lived for 89 days without a paycheck, only to receive the same offer that was on the table prior to jeopardizing the well being of my family for 89 days, I am leary of the "scab" concept. Everybody has circumstances that are unique. Who am I to say someone should be blackballed because they cannot afford to walk away from their job?

I proudly hang my ALPA Wooden Wings on the wall in my office. Until you can do the same because you went for broke (and were broke) because of what you believed in, be careful about the use of the word "scab". BTW, I was called a scab by the instructors at the Comair Aviation Academy while in ground school as a new hire for the EMB-120 on their campus because some of them felt I took a job from them because I did not instruct there. They did not know what they were talking about. I suppose those of you who have not actually walked the line as an ALPA member do not know what you are talking about either.

 

[pilotyip]

Welcome

I have. Please do not sugarcoat the process of walking away from your job. I walked the line when Comair went on strike. It meant a lot to stand for what you believed was right after years of hoping for a fair contract.

Having said that and lived for 89 days without a paycheck, only to receive the same offer that was on the table prior to jeopardizing the well being of my family for 89 days, I am leary of the "scab" concept. Everybody has circumstances that are unique. Who am I to say someone should be blackballed because they cannot afford to walk away from their job?

I proudly hang my ALPA Wooden Wings on the wall in my office. Until you can do the same because you went for broke (and were broke) because of what you believed in, be careful about the use of the word "scab". BTW, I was called a scab by the instructors at the Comair Aviation Academy while in ground school as a new hire for the EMB-120 on their campus because some of them felt I took a job from them because I did not instruct there. They did not know what they were talking about. I suppose those of you who have not actually walked the line as an ALPA member do not know what you are talking about either.

Great post, SCAB is over used. But like your CAA IP's many feel if they use that word they will be considered profesionals inside the business. Lording their ststus over others. I am also not one judge what a person has to do to keep their house and feed thier families

 

[Kalifornia]

Great post, SCAB is over used. But like your CAA IP's many feel if they use that word they will be considered profesionals inside the business. Lording their ststus over others. I am also not one judge what a person has to do to keep their house and feed thier families

You're a drunken' joke of a pilot if you're even allowed to still allowed to hold a medical. If you are for real, you're a puppet stringed along by the owner of your company. Bizarre, but I guess feasible considering the many weirdos in this line of work.

 

[hockeypilot44]

I know someone on the UAL "scab" list. He was offered a job by UAL during the strike. He called ALPA who told him, "go to class but don't operate a trip". He did go to class, the strike was over before he completed training.

He was hired off the street as a 727 Captain but never operated a trip as a Captain as he went to the back seat. United paid him as a Captain from day one.

A year or two later, ALPA found out he was being paid as a Captain and wanted him to give ALPA the difference clear back to day one. He said "No". How is that a scab?

ALPA is f^cked up. Would I cross a picket line? probably not, but I'm not blindly following a union that has done nothing but screw me since I became a member.

ALPA is not about you or me, it's about ALPA. The members of ALPA who work on safety issues have my respect and admiration. The union leadership doesn't. Your leader now is a bafoon. The one before was a thief. That's my opinion..............

I agree with your opinions on ALPA, but your friend is a scab. I would not even think about taking a job with an airline on strike as I have morals and common sense. Your friend is trying to justify without success that his entire career for the last 24 years is honest. If he was paid captain wages from the beginning, it is because United rewarded him for scabbing. Your friend is a piece of sh!t and has no ethics. It does not surprise me that he is lying to you to make himself look better.

 

[lj1313]

There was mention earlier on in this discussion of whether or not there was a problem with having a document that has in its listing a persons identifying information (i.e. social security number). Well, if you are in the State of Texas and are found in possession of this type of information, it is in fact a criminal offense.

Texas Penal Code 32.51
Fraudulent Use or Possession of Identifying Information
Identity Theft Enforcement and Protection Act

(b) A person commits an offense if the person, with the intent to harm or defraud another, obtains, possesses, transfers, or uses an item of identifying information of:
(1) a deceased natural person, including a stillborn infant or fetus, without legal authorization; or
(2) another person without the other person's consent.
(b-1) For the purposes of Subsection (b), the actor is presumed to have the intent to harm or defraud another if the actor possesses:
(1) the identifying information of three or more other persons;
(2) information described by Subsection (b)(2) concerning three or more deceased persons; or
(3) information described by Subdivision (1) or (2) concerning three or more persons or deceased persons.
(b-2) The presumption established under Subsection (b-1) does not apply to a business or other commercial entity or a government agency that is engaged in a business activity or governmental function that does not violate a penal law of this state.
(c) An offense under this section is:
(1) a state jail felony if the number of items obtained, possessed, transferred, or used is less than five;
(2) a felony of the third degree if the number of items obtained, possessed, transferred, or used is five or more but less than 10;
(3) a felony of the second degree if the number of items obtained, possessed, transferred, or used is 10 or more but less than 50; or
(4) a felony of the first degree if the number of items obtained, possessed, transferred, or used is 50 or more.
(d) If a court orders a defendant convicted of an offense under this section to make restitution to the victim of the offense, the court may order the defendant to reimburse the victim for lost income or other expenses, other than attorney's fees, incurred as a result of the offense.
(e) If conduct that constitutes an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under any other law, the actor may be prosecuted under this section, the other law, or both.

There is an inordinate amount of pilots that in the past have crossed a line and flew strike sanctioned work that live in areas of Texas. I know of three instances where one of these individuals on a "well known list" were victims of identity theft. During the investigations (one of which I assisted in) the individuals presented law enforcement with copies of the "well known list" as part of the investigation into where someone came into possession of the pilots social security number.

I have had a copy of the "well known list" in my flight case for years. I have never refered to it when checking on a jumpseater, but I had read over it at one time and I suppoose I carried it everyday in that flight case to hold myself as a defender of the CAUSE. But the very afternoon after meeting that pilot in my office, I went straight home, took the "well known list" out of my flight case and shreaded it. I did this not because I felt sympathy for the pilot, but rather I realized that I had personal and criminal liability each time carried it with me.

Folks I guess what I am trying to say is please do not let your personal feelings, sense of union pride, or belief that "its ok to have/distrubute this list becuase "everyone" has it" get you into a bind. Rest assured that if you were to ever get into some sort of civil or criminal procedings because of something like this that National ALPA would build walls around themselves and your unity would become a group of one. ALPA just can't afford the potential civil judgements that are happening today.


Lamar

 

[lj1313]

I just re-read my last post and realized that I hadn't told enough of the story about the pilot getting his identity stolen to make it clear how the crime occured that violated 32.51. But you get my drift .......

Lamar