Saying "with you" to Center

[Sol Rosenberg]

I use to say "with you" until one night, flying from COS to BJC.
COS handed me off to DEN app. So I proceeded to say "den app, cessna .... with you at 8500. The controller came on and began chewing me out for using the phrase "with you" .... HOW CAN YOU BE WITH ME WHEN YOU HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO ME!!! YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BE WITH ME UNLESS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY SPOKEN TO YOU!!!!
I do believe he needed to lighten up on the coffee consumption , but he did get his point across and Iam no longer guilty of saying "with you" or "checkin in".

Hey Vector4Fun, maybe you can help shed some light on this one. What's up with that Ahole controller in the above quote? I don't know where in the regs it states that a pilot cannot use the phrase "with you" or "checking in". How does that controller get off chewing out a pilot for using that phrase? By that specific controllers action of using the radio to transmit sarcastic non-essential information to the pilot seems to be much more unprofessional than what the pilot did. If the controller was that upset, shouldn't he have given the pilot a phone number to call or something? I've personally had controllers initiate non-essential conversation over the radio (re sports scores, current events, about my company, etc...) That would seem to be more of a reg violation than pilots who say "with you". I certainly didn't chew out the controller for tying up the radiowaves or ask for HIS phone number so I can call him when I landed. Seems to me he really does need to lighten up on the caffiene or something.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I use to say "with you" until one night, flying from COS to BJC.
COS handed me off to DEN app. So I proceeded to say "den app, cessna .... with you at 8500. The controller came on and began chewing me out for using the phrase "with you" .... HOW CAN YOU BE WITH ME WHEN YOU HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO ME!!! YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BE WITH ME UNLESS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY SPOKEN TO YOU!!!!

I think I know that cotroller.

Here's a similar story, given to me by another pilot.

==============================
I stopped saying "with you" cold turkey (it had slipped into my pilot speak) when I heard Philly Approach talking to a GA pilot late one night.

Cessna 123: "Philly Approach, Cessna 123 with you, two thousand five hundred over Woodstown, Mike".

Philly: "Cessna 123, Uniform is NOT the current information, squawk three zero three one and my name's Mike too how do you do."

(there was a stunned silence as the Cessna tried to figure it all out)

Cessna 123: "Ah Philly, I didn't say Uniform. Um, I have the current information - what was that squawk?"

Philly: "Actually Cessna 123, you did tell me you had Uniform - I have it on tape - the word 'with' precedes the ATIS information code - you want to try again".

(More silence and then maybe a realization)

Cessna 123: "OK Philly, Cessna 123 with...shoot...over Woodstown with information Mike".

Philly: (Emphatic) "Good Evening Cessna 123! I see you over Woodstown, two thousand three hundred and Mike is current, squawk three zero three one and say intentions".
==============================

 

[Vector4fun]

Hey Vector4Fun, maybe you can help shed some light on this one. What's up with that Ahole controller in the above quote? I don't know where in the regs it states that a pilot cannot use the phrase "with you" or "checking in". How does that controller get off chewing out a pilot for using that phrase?

Make note of the frequency, the facility, and the time. Don't ask for the controller's operating initials, he/she doesn't have to give them to you, and most likely won't. Go home, have a beer, chill out for 20 min. Then call the facility and ask for the shift supervisor. Tell him/her what happened. Ask them to review the tapes. Tell them why you are/were upset. Ask for a follow up.



The only thing I would challenge you to do is do the exact same thing next time a controller does you a big favor or really good job. Every organization has a few assets and asses. We studied in a Radar Lab, not a Monastery.

 

[Iceman21]

If I remember correctly (I don't have the AIM in front of me), the use of "out of" is correct. I don't believe it is the greatest time saver and it sometimes takes a bit too much time but I do believe it is in the AIM.

I will take a look at it when I get home from work.

 

[DenverDude2002]

And I thought Denver Approach had a good rep....

By the way, anyone ever had a runin with Tower Nazi at BJC? That guy used to crack me up, I could only picture the expression on his face when he got mad.....

 

[Bandit60]

For those of you that have a cow if improper phraseology is used....How come I dont hear more of you saying "Flight level two tree zero" (FL230).

Its funny because whenever I say it like that the other pilots always look at me funny.

 

[minitour]

...anyone ever had a runin with Tower Nazi at BJC?...

"no touch and go for you!"

The only Seinfeld episode I ever watched...

-mini

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The whole idea is to limit your air time, so some one else can get the clearance they need so they can move thier jet!... get rid of the fluff!! Stop the insanity...!!


The biggest issue is on the ground.... if a controller doesn't give a hold short or an active runway crossing, then reading back all the adj, verbs, taxiway names, wait for so and so, etc is not needed.

Example. ORD Ground- "AW 123, Rwy 32R, alpha, alpha11, bravo, behind the American Fokker use the Bravo bridge....

Air Wiskey 123- "AW123, wilco"

Wilco is very effective and under utlilized

No need to repeat everything...just do it...


When checking in within the same center, but a different frequency you don't HAVE to say your FL, cause the same computers are still tracking your flight.

IF you are confident of the frequency when given a change, you don't need to read it back, just flip the switch.. you can always go back...

Most terminal approach controllers, the initial and final controller, are physically sitting next to each other in the radar room. There is no need to repeat heading, airspeed and altitude clearances when switching from the initial to the final controller (or vice versa when departing). They have either verbally communicated your flight information, it is standard procedure and/or the controllers can see heading, altitude and speed information on their radar screen. Final controllers have certain criteria for issuing approach clearances, such as airport in sight or traffic to follow in sight. At times it is advantageous to volunteer this information while other times it will only clutter the frequency.


And the all time fav!

When repsonding to a traffic call the only two responses are "In sight" or "negative contact". There is no "looking", "ahhhhhhhh" and the worst and most useless... "got em on the fish finder/TCAS"

 

[mmmdonut]

The biggest issue is on the ground.... if a controller doesn't give a hold short or an active runway crossing, then reading back all the adj, verbs, taxiway names etc is not needed.

Example. ORD Ground- "AW 123, Rwy 32R, alpha, alpha11, bravo, behind the American Fokker use the Bravo bridge....

Air Wiskey 123- "AW123, wilco"

Wilco is very effective and under utlilized

No need to repeat everything...just do it...

You are kidding, right? How about that little line we hear in the ATIS that says "Readback all taxi & hold short clearances"

Try wilco with a ground controller at a big airport and see how far that gets you.

 

[JB74]

And the all time fav!

When repsonding to a traffic call the only two responses are "In sight" or "negative contact". There is no "looking", "ahhhhhhhh" and the worst and most useless... "got em on the fish finder/TCAS"

Heard this on MIA center this past weekend. Just didn't sound right.

Center: "N123 traffic 3 o'clock...4 miles...opposite direction...altitude indicates 8.5k"

N123: "ahhhh...roger....center agrees with TCAS"

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

,,,,,

 

[O-Line]

IF you are confident of the frequency when given a change, you don't need to read it back, just flip the switch.. you can always go back...

So you're that guy that Center calls about 10 times with a frequency change, wondering if you got the change or are asleep at the wheel.

I think what you meant to say is when asked to switch to "my frequency", i.e. same controller, different frequency, just flip the switch as he'll know he got a hold of you.

 

[mmmdonut]

How about reading-back my post.....

I use wilco every day I'm in ORD, BOS, IAD , JFK, EWR, LGA... UNLESS I was told to hold short or cross rwy XX. It freed up the freq enough that I actually got a thanks from gnd on occassion.....

Can you record that and post it here? Please?

 

[SiuDude]

The ORD ATIS only tells you to read back hold short instructions. Using WilCo is pretty common here.

 

[mmmdonut]

Please say wilco at EWR..... please... do it tomorrow when I'm there.