Saying "with you" to Center

[chperplt]

Ever notice how standard they are from center to center?

Are you being serious here? If you are... I've failed to notice that.

I seem to get better service from them since I've been doing it that way.

I don't believe anyone gets "better" service than anyone else. Unless of course you piss them off. Then we all know what kind of service you get.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I'm one of those "standard phraseology freaks." Cringe when I hear the non-standard stuff. As Caveman pointed out, the controllers seem to have no problem with saying the right thing the right way.

But the only time I really get a little crazy about it is when CFIs teach it as though it =is= the proper way to say it. I remember once a student pilot posted the communication cheat sheet from his flight school and "with you" was on it as the "right way".

My theory is simple. We will all end up picking up non-standard phrases. And most of us probably realize that there are times when "just the facts, ma'am" is what's needed. But when we start off learning that stuff, we become unable to get it right when we need it. Might as well be taught AIM-standard and persoanlize it later if we feel the need to be cool.

 

[Caveman]

"Are you being serious here? If you are... I've failed to notice that."

My experience has been that even when the controllers personalize it a bit they still give out the pertinent info using standard phraseology. For example, there used to be a guy at FAT that used the AIM correct terminology but usually ended his final transmission to you with "Happy trails." He was still standard, but with a personal touch.

 

[Vector4fun]

I used to not care about the "with you" thing until a few years ago. I'd get;


"Approach, DAL322 is with ya out of one four thousand to cross XXX at ten and we got Mike."

No big deal, sounds friendly and communicates what I need. Then the "little" guys started copying and I'd get;

"Approach, Baron 49X is with you at six".

Again, no big deal when you're not busy, and I know who N49X is because I just took the handoff. Then it became;

"Approach, Cessna 49M is with ya".

I'm scanning the scope and rufflin' through strips and ranging my scope out looking for a tag on Cessna 49M and trying to remember a handoff I didn't take. Finally, in frustration, I ask 49M his position and altitude.

"Oh, we're VFR about 30 west and we'd like flight following to Hooks." or some such.

It was at that point I really began to dislike the phrase, even though I probably used it myself a time or two. Now I check in with Call sign and altitude after a HO, and initiate a call with call sign and "VFR request". I like hearing that on approach, so I can immediately prioritize my response.

Anybody ever hear this one?

"Clearance, Cessna One Seven Two Seven Four Three Zero Bravo".

Hunh? Ohhh *(&$#@&
Used to drive me nuts as I'd already be ripping up the strip I started when he called. Thank goodness that's eased up some.

 

[mmmdonut]

I remember when I was doing my PPL training, being the dork that I am, I said "******** traffic, Warrior 123A rolling on runway 5." My instructor promptly and firmly told me to never do that again. I never did, not wanting to piss him off... lol

There was also another time I was flying Cargo into ORL and there were some ATA nerds in the pattern. One of them said, in response to a traffic call, "No joy, but enough about my life... heh heh." I wanted to strangle that **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**.

 

[mmmdonut]

Anybody ever hear this one?

"Clearance, Cessna One Seven Two Seven Four Three Zero Bravo".

Hunh? Ohhh *(&$#@&
Used to drive me nuts as I'd already be ripping up the strip I started when he called. Thank goodness that's eased up some.

I swear I've heard that on Tucson approach and it took them 5 minutes to figure it out. Only he was calling in Cessna one fife two..... Everyone else on the frequency was blocking each other trying to explain to the controller what this idiot was saying. It was a mess.

 

[minitour]

From 4-2-3(r2) revised contact procedures:

(a) ALOOOHA! (name of the facility being called)

(b) Token smart-guy aircraft identification (i.e. Slowtation, Near jet, Bagel Bomber, etc.)

(c) when oprerating on an airport surface, state position unless you're pretty sure nobody would be flying at this hour.

(d) The type of message to follow (i.e. "The smiles are wide 'cuz smoothe is the ride.")

(e) No matter how busy New York Approach is, read back every single instruction given.

(f) The word "Over" if required, and your crewmember hasn't already beaten you with the fire axe.

you know...back in middle school, my friends spent 20 minutes convincing me they had this awesome porno story for me to read...it took me a good five minutes to realize it was a man on man porno...

...that was the gayest thing I ever read until I saw that post

thanks for making me laugh

-mini

*edit* if you can't tell, I'm just f*ckin with ya

 

[52Vincent]

I use to say "with you" until one night, flying from COS to BJC.
COS handed me off to DEN app. So I proceeded to say "den app, cessna .... with you at 8500. The controller came on and began chewing me out for using the phrase "with you" .... HOW CAN YOU BE WITH ME WHEN YOU HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO ME!!! YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BE WITH ME UNLESS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY SPOKEN TO YOU!!!!
I do believe he needed to lighten up on the coffee consumption , but he did get his point across and Iam no longer guilty of saying "with you" or "checkin in".

 

[Vik]

I just say ...

"Twin Commanche 1234Y, level one six thousand"

I don't remember who they are half the time anyway, so point wasting time on freq having them correct you.

If you've reached the wrong guy, he'll let you know because you won't be on his screen or he won't have your info.

 

[Daveman]

With You

Hellll, I quit checkin' in years ago. Let them call me.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

I use to say "with you" until one night, flying from COS to BJC.
COS handed me off to DEN app. So I proceeded to say "den app, cessna .... with you at 8500. The controller came on and began chewing me out for using the phrase "with you" .... HOW CAN YOU BE WITH ME WHEN YOU HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO ME!!! YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BE WITH ME UNLESS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY SPOKEN TO YOU!!!!
I do believe he needed to lighten up on the coffee consumption , but he did get his point across and Iam no longer guilty of saying "with you" or "checkin in".

Hey Vector4Fun, maybe you can help shed some light on this one. What's up with that Ahole controller in the above quote? I don't know where in the regs it states that a pilot cannot use the phrase "with you" or "checking in". How does that controller get off chewing out a pilot for using that phrase? By that specific controllers action of using the radio to transmit sarcastic non-essential information to the pilot seems to be much more unprofessional than what the pilot did. If the controller was that upset, shouldn't he have given the pilot a phone number to call or something? I've personally had controllers initiate non-essential conversation over the radio (re sports scores, current events, about my company, etc...) That would seem to be more of a reg violation than pilots who say "with you". I certainly didn't chew out the controller for tying up the radiowaves or ask for HIS phone number so I can call him when I landed. Seems to me he really does need to lighten up on the caffiene or something.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I use to say "with you" until one night, flying from COS to BJC.
COS handed me off to DEN app. So I proceeded to say "den app, cessna .... with you at 8500. The controller came on and began chewing me out for using the phrase "with you" .... HOW CAN YOU BE WITH ME WHEN YOU HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO ME!!! YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BE WITH ME UNLESS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY SPOKEN TO YOU!!!!

I think I know that cotroller.

Here's a similar story, given to me by another pilot.

==============================
I stopped saying "with you" cold turkey (it had slipped into my pilot speak) when I heard Philly Approach talking to a GA pilot late one night.

Cessna 123: "Philly Approach, Cessna 123 with you, two thousand five hundred over Woodstown, Mike".

Philly: "Cessna 123, Uniform is NOT the current information, squawk three zero three one and my name's Mike too how do you do."

(there was a stunned silence as the Cessna tried to figure it all out)

Cessna 123: "Ah Philly, I didn't say Uniform. Um, I have the current information - what was that squawk?"

Philly: "Actually Cessna 123, you did tell me you had Uniform - I have it on tape - the word 'with' precedes the ATIS information code - you want to try again".

(More silence and then maybe a realization)

Cessna 123: "OK Philly, Cessna 123 with...shoot...over Woodstown with information Mike".

Philly: (Emphatic) "Good Evening Cessna 123! I see you over Woodstown, two thousand three hundred and Mike is current, squawk three zero three one and say intentions".
==============================

 

[Vector4fun]

Hey Vector4Fun, maybe you can help shed some light on this one. What's up with that Ahole controller in the above quote? I don't know where in the regs it states that a pilot cannot use the phrase "with you" or "checking in". How does that controller get off chewing out a pilot for using that phrase?

Make note of the frequency, the facility, and the time. Don't ask for the controller's operating initials, he/she doesn't have to give them to you, and most likely won't. Go home, have a beer, chill out for 20 min. Then call the facility and ask for the shift supervisor. Tell him/her what happened. Ask them to review the tapes. Tell them why you are/were upset. Ask for a follow up.



The only thing I would challenge you to do is do the exact same thing next time a controller does you a big favor or really good job. Every organization has a few assets and asses. We studied in a Radar Lab, not a Monastery.

 

[Iceman21]

If I remember correctly (I don't have the AIM in front of me), the use of "out of" is correct. I don't believe it is the greatest time saver and it sometimes takes a bit too much time but I do believe it is in the AIM.

I will take a look at it when I get home from work.

 

[DenverDude2002]

And I thought Denver Approach had a good rep....

By the way, anyone ever had a runin with Tower Nazi at BJC? That guy used to crack me up, I could only picture the expression on his face when he got mad.....

 

[Bandit60]

For those of you that have a cow if improper phraseology is used....How come I dont hear more of you saying "Flight level two tree zero" (FL230).

Its funny because whenever I say it like that the other pilots always look at me funny.

 

[minitour]

...anyone ever had a runin with Tower Nazi at BJC?...

"no touch and go for you!"

The only Seinfeld episode I ever watched...

-mini

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The whole idea is to limit your air time, so some one else can get the clearance they need so they can move thier jet!... get rid of the fluff!! Stop the insanity...!!


The biggest issue is on the ground.... if a controller doesn't give a hold short or an active runway crossing, then reading back all the adj, verbs, taxiway names, wait for so and so, etc is not needed.

Example. ORD Ground- "AW 123, Rwy 32R, alpha, alpha11, bravo, behind the American Fokker use the Bravo bridge....

Air Wiskey 123- "AW123, wilco"

Wilco is very effective and under utlilized

No need to repeat everything...just do it...


When checking in within the same center, but a different frequency you don't HAVE to say your FL, cause the same computers are still tracking your flight.

IF you are confident of the frequency when given a change, you don't need to read it back, just flip the switch.. you can always go back...

Most terminal approach controllers, the initial and final controller, are physically sitting next to each other in the radar room. There is no need to repeat heading, airspeed and altitude clearances when switching from the initial to the final controller (or vice versa when departing). They have either verbally communicated your flight information, it is standard procedure and/or the controllers can see heading, altitude and speed information on their radar screen. Final controllers have certain criteria for issuing approach clearances, such as airport in sight or traffic to follow in sight. At times it is advantageous to volunteer this information while other times it will only clutter the frequency.


And the all time fav!

When repsonding to a traffic call the only two responses are "In sight" or "negative contact". There is no "looking", "ahhhhhhhh" and the worst and most useless... "got em on the fish finder/TCAS"

 

[mmmdonut]

The biggest issue is on the ground.... if a controller doesn't give a hold short or an active runway crossing, then reading back all the adj, verbs, taxiway names etc is not needed.

Example. ORD Ground- "AW 123, Rwy 32R, alpha, alpha11, bravo, behind the American Fokker use the Bravo bridge....

Air Wiskey 123- "AW123, wilco"

Wilco is very effective and under utlilized

No need to repeat everything...just do it...

You are kidding, right? How about that little line we hear in the ATIS that says "Readback all taxi & hold short clearances"

Try wilco with a ground controller at a big airport and see how far that gets you.

 

[JB74]

And the all time fav!

When repsonding to a traffic call the only two responses are "In sight" or "negative contact". There is no "looking", "ahhhhhhhh" and the worst and most useless... "got em on the fish finder/TCAS"

Heard this on MIA center this past weekend. Just didn't sound right.

Center: "N123 traffic 3 o'clock...4 miles...opposite direction...altitude indicates 8.5k"

N123: "ahhhh...roger....center agrees with TCAS"