Say it ain't so, ZW

[T-Gates]

Did I miss something somewhere or do you not have to have an ATP to have a type rating? Which, last time I checked was 1500tt. It sure was when I got mine.

You do not need to do the ATP at the same time as the type. I have a SD3 type on my Commercial Certificate. But I know FSI won't type anyone with less than 1000 hours. And if you get a type with no time in type, or no turbine time, you have a restriction placed on your Type that you cannot act as PIC on that airplane until you complete 25 hours of IOE on that type.

As far as this RAA/Air Whiskey thing goes, I think RAA is making some $$$ trying to convince people that if they go and get typed that they will get more job offers... What good will a CL-65 type do with no time in the plane and no job offer? I have no idea....

 

[crashpad]

It all about sucking life from somebodys' dreams to make a buck.
If Wisco endorses this without so much as a finger lifted by their MEC and ALPA brethren to protest this kind of practice....well, they won't be able to distinguish themselves from Mesa now will they?

 

[AWACoff]

All these rumors about 2 guys getting hired with 800TT are UNTRUE!!

They actually only had about 400TT. Pat Doyle stopped down in our recurrent last Monday and told us this. He said they were both really sharp. I guess we'll find out when they hit the line.
I got hired at Lakes with less TT than that and I didn't kill anybody. Maybe they won't either.

 

[crashpad]

The problem facing ZW is'nt weather inexperienced pilots who pay-for-training are safe. It's the beginning of the end of any semblance of pilot unity and structural cohesiveness within the Air Wisconsin group itself. ZW is quickly descending from; 'we only hire the most qualified pilots because we take pride in everything we do'. -to- 'you can buy your way onboard without earning what the rest of us have worked our whole careers for.' What this new cadre of pilots will do to the pride and self-respect of Air Wisconsin pilots and everything they have built will be truely sad...truely.
Management may very well be initiating a Jonothan Ornstein blueprint for success.

 

[Rottweiller]

Going through the RAA program isn't AWAC doing a pay for training stunt. The candidates from the RAA program are trained by AWAC sim instructors (moonlighting for CAE if you like), and it is on their reccommendation that they get at least an interview. It's up to them after that. There are NO guarantees of a job or anything, just an interview and not all get even that chance.

The RAA program is tough and 1/3 of those going through have washed out and lost their money up to that point. They do come out with a type on their commercial, just as you need one if you have the money to own and fly your own Lear on a comm ticket.

 

[Speedtree]

Crashpad,

I don't believe our pilots or union have the authority to accept or reject anyone the company wants to hire. It is my understanding that we can deny them union membership after their probation period. We can also put pilots on the interview team which could affect whether someone gets hired or not.

a few points:

2 pilots completed a training program which involved being trained at CAE in CRJ simulators by ZW instructors at their own expense. Totally separate from our training.

Air Wisconsin has traditionally hired high-time, 121 experienced pilots who are now leaving for LCCs now that our expansion has slowed compared to what was projected back in 2001.

It seems the company might be choosing to hire lower time individuals who will stay with the company long enough to offset the initial training costs.

If this is the case it would seem reasonable to expect the company to be impressed with a pilot who has a CRJ type rating from the same facility who does our training. This is in no way a requirement for employment or application. These two are probably 2 out of approximately 100 recent new-hires.

It shows the continued benefit of working for a company like AWAC that people are doing this. You don't see many people getting types for the 1900 to work at Great Lakes or Skyway, or getting types to work at Comair either. I don't advocate it but it's their decision. When we see new-hires who are unsafe and a liability to our operations then I expect the union will have something to say. Until then it seems much rumor and ado about nothing.

It's like you have a chip on your shoulder or something. Don't be hurtful.

 

[crashpad]

Speedtree;

You are wise and AWAC is lucky to have you.
I don't think it's a 'chip', more like a little guy with a pitchfork who mostly wins over the dude with the halo on my other shoulder.
I've been following Air Wisco since the early 90s' and think of it as a sporting event. It's been a real bummer lately, as the underdog I would like to see win keeps getting tackled.
I didn't mean to be hurtful and will govern my enthusiasm.

 

[beech1900kid]

I am of the belief that the union had better say something about it.

As PIC who has to fly with these guys, you had all better realize that the Captain is doing two jobs up there when he has some dip sh*t FO with only 600 hours. It's a liability and you had better pray you don't even come close to getting us killed or you will find yourself in remedial training under my recommendation.
Also, if you were sorry enough to find yourself in the position to have to pay $7000 for a type in a plane like the RJ, know that a lot of guys who put their blood, sweat, and tears into becomming a pilot are going to be sitting on interview boards at the majors/nationals. Try explaining to them how you barely obtain a CFI, drop 7K and then sit in an RJ fat dumb and happy not having the slightest idea of how much the rest of the airline thinks you suck.

PS - history tells us a lot...find an old gulfstrem guy and ask him his feelings

 

[crashpad]

....or you will find yourself in remedial training under my recommendation.

This is serious, stearn, and a little kinky......how can I get in on this?

 

[aview1]

beech1900kid you asked, I will answer.

"PS - history tells us a lot...find an old gulfstrem guy and ask him his feelings"

I myself am not a Gulfstream guy, nor have I been, but I do have several friends who went that route. Most of them were hired on at majors, with a few at nationals Most are now on furlough. Though a few made it above the cut lines.

On the subject of paying for a type, I wouldn't.

On the subect of low hours, I had 200 hours and was flying turbine equipment in the military, low hours do not equate to poor flying skills. I have seen many low hour sharp sticks. I have also seen high hour, really bad pilots.