Saudi

[Vik]

I jump seated on an Emirates 777 about a year or so ago. Both the pilots were "foreigners" to that region. One guy was from Australia and the other guy was from England.

They both were paid very well to relocate and the salary and quality of life for them and their families was excellent.

They were living in the UAE not Saudi Arabia and the UAE is more liberal from what I understand.

I wouldn't mind working in the UAE or Saudi Arabia. Those are two countries in that region that are pretty safe.

 

[Expat]

The whole reason I left my rather well paying job with a major American carrier and restarted my life in the middle east was due to the general racist attitude and xenophobia people in the United States exibt towards Arabs. Even third generation Americans like myself.
Living in Saudi is not perfect. I agree, some of the local customs take some gettign used to. My wife is not happy about not being able to drive. However, we do get nice benefits from my new job with a VIP, including her being flown out commercially to join us on long trips.
My children are enjoying a world-class english-speakign education, as they never learned arabic from eithe rof this. My 16-year old son misses football, but does not miss his coach publicly telling the rest of his team that "people like him" were to blame for Sept. 11. Nor do I miss 2 Capts calling in sick on the same day, or snide remarks about "Rashid the Raghead"
I am immensely proud to be an American, as was my father and my grandfather. But until things settle down in the US, I'd rather be in Saudi Arabia than be subject to the toment myself and my family went through after 9/11.
So my honest suggestion is, take the job in Saudi. The money is good, the country is nice. Just don't knock the locals because they are different.

 

[taz]

An honest reply

Hi Expat
I know exactly how you feel. During the desert storm conflict i was a captain at a major airline and was also made the but of jokes from "small minded" & arragant Americans who really didn't know or think about what they were talking about, ( more like kindergarten kids on the playground) Never-The-Less 10 Plus years later & we are in the same or similar senario again. And again they brush aside all their University education and life experieces to jump on the Xenophobia and Racist bandwagon!. If that's what gives them an orgasim then more power to them!!!
The fact is that America is for the first time in its history filled with people like me and you WHO ARE BORN IN THE USA!!! but as such don't fit the profile...i.e NONWHITE/BLOND HAIR BLUE EYE !! who are actually the "new Majority" and are now the convient scapegoat for the innate childish beheavior by these same "college educated sons & daughters of the Republic".
Like you this is my home and I LOVE THIS COUNTRY!!! but like the African Americans before me we are denied that right!!...
I have like you moved on with my life and though i still live here i have chose to make charge of my life and remove..that negative element!
And i have found that there are places that you can go and make allot of money and not have all the necessary baggage of the "American experience".
In my travels throughout Europe, Aisia , the Middle east and the Caribbean I have met many different people who lived through WW2 and they "ALL" tell met the exact same thing that "America Today" has become more & more like Europe in 1938 when Hitler
came to power and the Socalist policies of "The Third Reich". which were firmly embraced by the "ARIAN" Citizenry......
So as they say"Hind sight is always 20/20.

Cheers

TAZ!!

 

[metrodriver]

Taz and ex-pat, you guys are right. Have you seen the new website from uncle sam for the background check? It goes a bit overboard and very privacy invasive. (www.flightschoolcandidate.gov)

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Blah Blah Blah

Whatever you guys say still doesnt change the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers (I cant remember the exact numbers) were Saudis. The rest were also of middle eastern origin. Two wrongs dont make a right. We did nothing to provoke such a cowardly attack by Rashid and his bunch. Maybe we (the USA) are not perfect it still doesnt give people the right to kill 3000 innocent people. Thats something that the bleeding heart liberals have a hard time understanding.

If you dont like it here leave, I will be very happy that you did. Theres no reason to stay here if you dont like it. This is the greatest nation ever on this planet, we enjoy more freedoms here than just about any country in the world.

I do fully support the backgorund checks of all people of middle eastern, persian, and arabic descent. It has to be done to make this country safe again for my children to live.

 

[DC10]

Sometimes I read things on this board that just make me cringe.

After reading B-J-J Fighter's post I've thought long and hard about how to respond and feel that mere words can't even begin to convey my disgust towards him.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

My earlier post

What did I say that made you cringe? I guess the truth does in fact hurt sometimes. I dont see anything wrong with my post.

 

[Ty Webb]

Expat and TAZ:

I have nothing but respect for the Arab-American pilots that I know, and who stuck it out through difficult times here, and I have no doubts about their loyalty. I would gladly work with any of them, and I have not heard any of my fellow pilots say anything different.

You two clowns, however, do not fit into that category. Maybe the pilots at your carrier were reacting to you differently because of the way you handled the situation- and in running off to Saudi Arabia, and bad-mouthing us form a distance, you pretty much proved them right . . . . . . .

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Excellent Post

Ty you hit the nail on the head. Someone comes over here to enjoy the freedom we have here and then they run back to Saudi to bad mouth the US. Do me a big favor and the rest of us loyal americans, please dont come back, its a much better place with you 2 gone.

 

[DC10]

Expat and TAZ,

If the opinions of Ty and Blow Job Fighter are typical of the treatment you received in the US, I'm sure that you are far better off living in another country. Please try to ignore them.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

DC10

Why make this a persoanl attack, I was just stating my opinion, and I stand by it. No need to make this personal, if I wanted it this to be personal I would just meet up with you and kick your a$$. Lets stick to issues and keep persoanl attacks out of this. You know what I said is right, thats what hurts so bad.

 

[DC10]

Oh Please - let's try to keep this at a level above the third grade.

Nothing personal - a little sense of humor can go a long way to understanding someone else's culture. Maybe you should try it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Thanks, pal, but I have had far too much "culture" already.

I don't need anyone apologizing for me. I have been to the Middle East. I have seen how the people live. I have seen how the royal families squander the resources of the region, then blame the US and the Israelis for the impoverishment of their people. I have seen how they live, and how they treat one another. Life is cheap, tempers are hot, and religion is used as a conduit to preach hate.

Apologists like yourself have a long and horrible tradition of letting things get out of hand, until an all-out conflict is inevitable. We are trying to nip this in the bud. It is going to get worse before it gets better.

My advice to you is pull your head out of your tail with a great popping sound, get the flower-power sticker off of your mini-van and thank a soldier for cleaning up this mess for you, me and the rest of the world, the citizens of Iraq included.

Once they have been freed, and democracy is able to flourish, the rest of the Muslim countries will eventually follow (which is exactly what the Saudi royal family is afraid of).

I'm getting off my soapbox now.

 

[Vik]

This is getting out of hand kids.

I'm sorry those guys had people make fun of their religion/race/nationality/whatever.

The events of 9/11 doesn't give anyone the right to make fun of Arabs, Muslims, etc.

The bottom line is that the events of 9/11 have reduced the level of privacy for all of us. If that means non-citizens are kept on a leash, so be it. I don't want the events of 9/11 to repeat, EVER. I don't want a single person killed due to a hijacking or bombing.

Just look at what 9/11 has done to the entire U.S. economy. I would gladly give up some freedoms in exchange for security. I have nothing to hide.

People that are here on visa/green card should accept the fact that they are visitors here and are going to be watched closely. If someone is a visitor in my house, I don't let them roam around and do whatever they please.

Before anyone attacks me for not siding with expat and company, I am a naturalized citizen. That means I wasn't born here. I came here from another country and my parents worked hard to provide for me and contribute to this country.

I honestly don't believe some of those stories. If those things had happened, there are legal means of fighting back. Packing up your stuff and moving to another country is not the answer and I can't imagine an adult doing it. I can't imagine a football coach saying that either especially with a whole team as witnesses. If it was in private, that might be possible, but not with an entire team watching.

Anyhow, arguing like little kids isn't going to help and this thread will just get killed before anyone learns anything valuable.

 

[Expat]

B-J-J : You are entitled to your opinions. That is what part of being Americna is all about. I respectfully agrree to disagree with you. America is a free country and a great place to live. Wait till someone deprives you of your freedom.

Vik : Actually, the coach incident did happen. Complaints were filed, all the usual nonsense, and an apology was received.

I completely agree with in depth background checks of Green Card holders and Naturalised citizens before employment with an airline. Prudence demands this. However, I am NOT a naturalised citizen. I was born in L.A. , as was my father. My family have been Americans since 1915. If this means that I am a security risk, fine, background check me. But why not check the irishman who immigrated in 1950 with ties to the IRA? There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

In passing, indeed the majority of the hijackers were Saudi citizens. However, one must look at the fact that all of them were originally Hawdramati, an area in Yeman that the bin Laden family also originates from.

 

[Timebuilder]

It's true.

A democracy in Iraq scares the sand out of every dictator in the mideast. The entire region will fall like a house of cards when the citizens realize that they have been brainwashed into believing that Israel and the US are the boogeyman.

As far as drawing a line somwhere in terms of security scrutiny, I recall our failure to go after the FALN, a Puerto Rican extremist group who placed a bomb in New York. Because of NY politics, we decided to give these guys a pass back in the 70's. The IRA? They have fallen out of favor here in the past ten years. The FBI has probably found that list of Americans who send money to the IRA in a drawer somewhere. I wouldn't want to be on that list.

The attackers didn't care a whit for their fellow saudis who live in America. The fact that they would be scrutinized and picked on wasn't a concern. After all, they were over here consorting with the infidel and they deserved the same fate as the rest of us. Now all of us, including saudi Americans will pay a price for the actions of a few. We refused to secure our borders and control the flow of immigration to a manageable level, and we let these guys just walk right into our country in the name of freedom.

Yes Bob Dylan, the times, they are a-changin'.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

"Like you this is my home and I LOVE THIS COUNTRY!!! but like the African Americans before me we are denied that right!!...
I have like you moved on with my life and though i still live here i have chose to make charge of my life and remove..that negative element!
And i have found that there are places that you can go and make allot of money and not have all the necessary baggage of the "American experience".
In my travels throughout Europe, Aisia , the Middle east and the Caribbean I have met many different people who lived through WW2 and they "ALL" tell met the exact same thing that "America Today" has become more & more like Europe in 1938 when Hitler
came to power and the Socalist policies of "The Third Reich". which were firmly embraced by the "ARIAN" Citizenry......
So as they say"Hind sight is always 20/20."


Taz,


What in the world do the citizenry of Europe who lived through WWII know about "America Today?" Hitler came to power because he killed. Read up on the night of the brown knives if you want some detail. And last I checked, I played golf with two friends of mine who are first generation lebanese american two weeks ago...I wasn't spending the day trying to find a way to keep them out of the concentration camps!!! I assume you were reacting with emotion when you wrote those comments because they are tremendously ABSURD!!

If you moved on, good luck. Real Americans don't run away because they feel they haven't been treated well at times. Welcome to the Club. Everyone gets treated badly and shafted at some point in their life. A positive ATTITUDE will always overcome any short-term negative occurence. And although I do agree with your comments about the overall plights of african americans in this country, there are one heck of alot of african american millionaires here, and not just athletes. I'd be surprised if your experiences really compared very closely to theirs.


Mr. I.

 

[Timebuilder]

Wow. I go out of town for a few days, and I miss a post like Taz's. I'll proceed on the assumption that the quote was accurate.

I don't know if you have had a chance to read Ward Connerly, or listen to men like Walter Williams or JC Watts. That's just a short list of highly visible african americans who haven't bought into the victimization line.

The most successful blacks in America fall into two camps: those who have a positive, non-victim attitude of success, and those who are self-proclaimed "leaders" who perpetuate the "I be oppessed" attitude. The blacks who are still struggling are the ones who listen to those of the second camp, the big government, restitution crowd. Don't fall for that line. It's poison, and at its worst supports a justification of racist beliefs. Your success is the best weapon against racism, and victimization only provides fuel for hatred.

Before you make reference to a European belief about the US, you need to research those who were the downtrodden during Hitler's rise to power. Talk to the people who survived the concentration camps, and ask THEM if the US today is in any way similar to the socialist labor party of Hitler. Certainly, you can ask any number of thousands of people around the world about the US today, and find a vehement anti-American sentiment. Consider the source: people who know little of freedom in general, or America in particular. And remember this: if it weren't for us, they'd be saying "seig heil!"

 

[daedaepilot]

Wow. I go out of town for a few days, and I miss a post like Taz's. I'll proceed on the assumption that the quote was accurate.

I don't know if you have had a chance to read Ward Connerly, or listen to men like Walter Williams or JC Watts. That's just a short list of highly visible african americans who haven't bought into the victimization line.

The most successful blacks in America fall into two camps: those who have a positive, non-victim attitude of success, and those who are self-proclaimed "leaders" who perpetuate the "I be oppessed" attitude. The blacks who are still struggling are the ones who listen to those of the second camp, the big government, restitution crowd. Don't fall for that line. It's poison, and at its worst supports a justification of racist beliefs. Your success is the best weapon against racism, and victimization only provides fuel for hatred.

hmmm....someone obviously has an agenda! It amazes me how ultra-conservatives can completely manipulate a topic to fit their own B.S.
What do black republicans and victimization have to do with this topic? Nothing! Leave it up to the Far Right to find something.

 

[Timebuilder]

Either you didn't read the post to which I was responding, or you chose not to find the relevance.

I find that very discouraging.

Okay, I'll help you out:

"Like you this is my home and I LOVE THIS COUNTRY!!! but like the African Americans before me we are denied that right!!...

This kind of thinking is indicative of someone who is dangerously close to limiting his own worth by accepting what others are telling him about how he has been victimized.

Is that clear?