SA roumors

[tiktak]

whats da matter @ SA
they interview, supposetly a class on da 09/15
now the consession vote and the rumor of return of the saabs
I know the leases are up in Jan, but nobody wants those planes

 

[tindriver72]

Funny thing is...


Only 3 of the 21 aircraft leases are up in January. 21 - 3 = 18
We have leases on some of these aircraft as far as 2006.

As for the 9-15 class, I heard that is had been postponed. Hmmm.

 

[chperplt]

I know the leases are up in Jan, but nobody wants those planes

Not quite true... There is a small Beech 1900 and Saab operator with a keen eye for business who is interested in those beautiful A models..

 

[godsgift2aviatn]

Reality 101

There are dark clouds gathering over the PIT crew room these days. Why? because we voted down a TA for a 10/5 % pay cut? Lets think about this objectivley.

Get your calculators out folks.

Shuttle America has 120 pilots (conservative #). 60 Capt's 60 FO's for arguments sake.

Capt's get paid an average of $47.04 per Hr.

FO's get paid an average of $23.00 per Hr.

Minimum pay is 72 Hrs.

You still with me?

Total Capt. salary for the month of September should be $203,212.80

Total FO salary for the month of September should be $99,360.00

10% of Capt. pay equals $20,321.28

5% of FO pay equals a whopping $4,968.00

For a grand total of $25,289.28

If Shuttle America has been brought to its knees over $25,289 and change then yes SA should be put out of its misery.

Just my .28¢

 

[I.P. Freley]

Re: The above calculation

The "average captain" can't be making $47/hr, as all but perhaps the top 15 captains are in their 2nd year or less, which pays under $41/hr. We all know the story about how it is that the "Old Shuttle" captains are making significantly more, but they are outnumbered 3-to-1 so their effect on the average pay is lessened. Let's make it an average of $43/hr, that is more conservative and more realistic.

I don't think it's realistic to look at the total number of flying hours and multiplying by that number. Inevitably there are more revenue hours racked up by the pilots than are reflected in the hours flown, because of junior manning and other time-and-a-half adventures, plus vacation pay, sick pay, etc. A quick calculation shows that your numbers only total up to 60hrs of pay per captain and per FO, which makes no sense as minimum pay is 72hrs... And almost everyone except the most junior FO's makes an excess-segs check every month (junior captains almost always break guarantee unless it's the middle of winter). Let's say that the average crew gets PAID for 85hrs/mo, though this could obviously be off by a little.

$43 X 85hrs X 60 Caps = $219,300/mo X 10% = $21,900
$23 X 85hrs X 60 FO's = $117,300/mp X 05% = $5,865

So basically a couple grand less than the now-famous "thirty thousand a month savings". That's three times the number you arrived at, but still, I agree with your sentiment.

Of course you do realize that the company's position is not that the "thirty thousand a month savings" was going to make or break the company, but that our decision to not accept the pay cut scared off USAirways (whose improved deal was based upon our taking concessions) and Saab, thus making "thirty thousand a month" into much, much more than that.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Can "we" even default on the leases? I mean, don't we sub-lease the aircraft from CHQ?

I think the real threat to Saab would be more along the lines of us "giving the airplanes back" to CHQ and then THEY could sub-lease the a/c to someone else for less than market value (diminishing their loss on the parked airplanes they are paying for)... thus depressing the value of the Saabs that Saab Aircraft Leasing currently have parked and are on the market as well.

Forgot to mention GE, whom as I recall was another of the "stakeholders" from whom mgmt was attempting to obtain concessions.

As I understand it (and obviously my understanding is no better than anyone else's), USAirways DID want to see that they weren't going to be the only ones giving concessions, thus their alleged requirement that the pilot group give concessions (note that it says CONCESSIONS, and doesn't necessarily require a PAY CUT). I think USAirways also required that SA secure concessions from Saab, but I'm not positive about that.

As for whether or not we were "created to fail", it is fairly apparent to me that we were at least "created to make CHQ's financials look better". They look pretty good indeed in light of the fact that they aren't taking an $8million/yr loss on airplanes they are contracted to pay for... Unfortunately WE are taking the loss, instead.

And as for Airways, well, if we ARE losing this much money (numbers seem to vary from half a million to 3/4 million per month on average), it is because of the cruddy deal we have with our sole code share partner. I can't possibly imagine a company being run any more lean that SA is right now... Yet we are in such dire straits that we need to be shut down? We provide Airways with their best product right now in terms of prop service (look at the numbers), and they won't reneogitate better terms? They'd rather not pay us, oh, let's say an additional $80k per month ($1million annually) and dump the service off on a less reliable carrier?

Can USAirways afford to offer LESSER service right now, when they are losing customers to the other carriers? With the kind of money USAirways is bleeding right now, a million wouldn't make much difference to THEM. A million could and would make the difference to US, however. Wouldn't a million bucks over the next 12 months be good insurance?

Apparently the answer is "no". Color me mystified and upset.

 

[godsgift2aviatn]

Prof. Freely, I have revised my figure on the monthly pilot payroll and would agree it lies between the two baselines.
On the matter of us giving concessions inorder for Saab, Airways and GE to proceed with theirs. I have a hard time swallowing that one. Nevertheless I expect management to paint an apocalyptic picture in the forthcoming memo, thus expediting and or possibly increasing the rumored mass exodus. In any event the cards have been delt so let's put on our best poker faces.