Rumor: UA to be Launch Customer for 787-10

[Furloughed80]

BUSINESS | June 13, 2013, 5:09 p.m. ET

Boeing to Launch Stretch 787 in Paris

By JON OSTROWER And DANIEL MICHAELS
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Boeing Co. is close to formally launching a third version of its 787 Dreamliner and securing its first firm orders for the stretch-bodied jetliner, according to people familiar with the company's plans.

The aerospace company is expected to name at least three customers for the plane, known as the 787-10, at next week's Paris air show, including launch customers from Asia, Europe, and the U.S.

The version of the Dreamliner currently in operation, the 787-8, which has about 240 seats, resumed flights in late April after a three-month grounding triggered by burning lithium-ion batteries, and Boeing is looking to regain its momentum by sparking sales of the new 320-seat 787-10. Boeing also sells an intermediate-sized Dreamliner version, the 787-9, with 270 seats, that it is expected to start delivering next year.

United Continental Holdings Inc. is likely to be the first U.S. customer for the 787-10, the people familiar with the situation said. A spokeswoman for United, which currently operates the 787-8 and has the 787-9 on order declined to comment.

British Airways parent International Consolidated Airlines Group SA and Singapore Airlines Ltd. are expected to lead the announced orders, the people said. Both airlines have indicated plans to buy Dreamliners, though only Singapore Airlines publicly indicated a preference for the new 787-10.

Air Lease Corp., which was closely involved in the 787-10's development, also is expected to be an early customer for the jet, potentially ordering up to 30 of the new jets to lease to airlines, one of the people said.

Boeing hasn't disclosed pricing on the 787-10. Prices for the 787-8 is around $200 million before discounts.

"We continue to engage our customers on the potential new member of the 787 family," said a Boeing spokesman.

The 787-10 is designed to compete against the Airbus A350, which is expected to make its maiden flight on Friday. Airbus is a unit of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. EAD. The stretched 787 won't fly as far as the A350, but Boeing says the jet will offer better economics on shorter routes.

Boeing's board granted its sales teams in November the authority to start formal sales discussions with potential customers for 787-10. Boeing had planned to secure its first orders for the new Dreamliner earlier in the year, but was slowed by the grounding of the global Dreamliner fleet, said executives.

Boeing to Launch Larger Dreamliner at Paris Air Show - WSJ.com

 

[OneBadLT123]

sCo or sUA? Oh wait, I forgot we're all one big happy family now.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Ummmmmm, just a thought. Shouldn't Boeing get the "A" model right (and actually, you know, flying) before they move on the next version of the airplane? Jusssssss sayin'

 

[jonjuan]

Ummmmmm, just a thought. Shouldn't Boeing get the "A" model right (and actually, you know, flying) before they move on the next version of the airplane? Jusssssss sayin'

Ummm, it is flyin'.....just sayin'

 

[gutshotdraw]

Ummm, it is flyin'.....just sayin'

Barely. And not as intended. No long, over-water legs until the fix is proven.

 

[Shrek]

Barely. And not as intended. No long, over-water legs until the fix is proven.

Is this long enough for ya ?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47537762

 

[dicko]

Is this long enough for ya ?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47537762

The article states that service from Denver to Tokyo in the 787 begins March 31 2013 ...... How's that working out for you ?

 

[sniper]

BUSINESS | June 13, 2013, 5:09 p.m. ET

Boeing to Launch Stretch 787 in Paris

By JON OSTROWER And DANIEL MICHAELS
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Boeing Co. is close to formally launching a third version of its 787 Dreamliner and securing its first firm orders for the stretch-bodied jetliner, according to people familiar with the company's plans.

The aerospace company is expected to name at least three customers for the plane, known as the 787-10, at next week's Paris air show, including launch customers from Asia, Europe, and the U.S.

The version of the Dreamliner currently in operation, the 787-8, which has about 240 seats, resumed flights in late April after a three-month grounding triggered by burning lithium-ion batteries, and Boeing is looking to regain its momentum by sparking sales of the new 320-seat 787-10. Boeing also sells an intermediate-sized Dreamliner version, the 787-9, with 270 seats, that it is expected to start delivering next year.

United Continental Holdings Inc. is likely to be the first U.S. customer for the 787-10, the people familiar with the situation said. A spokeswoman for United, which currently operates the 787-8 and has the 787-9 on order declined to comment.

British Airways parent International Consolidated Airlines Group SA and Singapore Airlines Ltd. are expected to lead the announced orders, the people said. Both airlines have indicated plans to buy Dreamliners, though only Singapore Airlines publicly indicated a preference for the new 787-10.

Air Lease Corp., which was closely involved in the 787-10's development, also is expected to be an early customer for the jet, potentially ordering up to 30 of the new jets to lease to airlines, one of the people said.

Boeing hasn't disclosed pricing on the 787-10. Prices for the 787-8 is around $200 million before discounts.

"We continue to engage our customers on the potential new member of the 787 family," said a Boeing spokesman.

The 787-10 is designed to compete against the Airbus A350, which is expected to make its maiden flight on Friday. Airbus is a unit of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. EAD. The stretched 787 won't fly as far as the A350, but Boeing says the jet will offer better economics on shorter routes.

Boeing's board granted its sales teams in November the authority to start formal sales discussions with potential customers for 787-10. Boeing had planned to secure its first orders for the new Dreamliner earlier in the year, but was slowed by the grounding of the global Dreamliner fleet, said executives.



Boeing to Launch Larger Dreamliner at Paris Air Show - WSJ.com

I hope we get some of those. Even though I like the Bus I support american products.

We delayed the orders for 2022, oh well

 

[rjacobs]

The article states that service from Denver to Tokyo in the 787 begins March 31 2013 ...... How's that working out for you ?

It flew last Monday DEN-NRT. It also flew IAH-LRH.

Barely. And not as intended. No long, over-water legs until the fix is proven.

So those flights have been going on. And most other carriers have been flying them on long flights over water. Saw an Ethiopian 787 somewhere a few weeks ago, I think IAD maybe.

 

[Shrek]

The article states that service from Denver to Tokyo in the 787 begins March 31 2013 ...... How's that working out for you ?

Working well apparently.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/thewa...iveaway-from-the-first-united-den-nrt-flight/

 

[dicko]

Working well apparently.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/thewa...iveaway-from-the-first-united-den-nrt-flight/

You do realize its now June ..... Right ? Ah well. What's a few months. I did enjoy the article. In particular the traditional prayer before the flight of 'old sparky'. Might need it the first time it fires up over the Pacific.

Boeing and the FAA say its safe. What could possibly go wrong.

 

[IAHERJ]

You do realize its now June ..... Right ? Ah well. What's a few months. I did enjoy the article. In particular the traditional prayer before the flight of 'old sparky'. Might need it the first time it fires up over the Pacific.

Boeing and the FAA say its safe. What could possibly go wrong.

Jealous often?

 

[Furloughed80]

Jealous often?

Things have taken a turn for the worse at EK for him. He's been a little moody lately.

 

[AirMike]

Jealous often?

No kidding, talk about a hard on. I'll never understand people hoping for failure.

 

[dicko]

Damn. Can't get anything past you guys.

 

[Scrapdog]

Don't feed the troll. Just ignore the clown.

 

[densoo]

Too bad the delivery date coincides with UAL's next bankruptcy.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Too bad the delivery date coincides with UAL's next bankruptcy.

Stock up on granola bars now. Oh wait, those will always survive another bankruptcy, it's just all the important stuff that gets tossed...

 

[AirMike]

Too bad the delivery date coincides with UAL's next bankruptcy.

If we go into bankruptcy, it won't be because of LUAL. sCAL brought so much debt to this merger due to not filing bankruptcy like we did.

 

[densoo]

If we go into bankruptcy, it won't be because of LUAL. sCAL brought so much debt to this merger due to not filing bankruptcy like we did.

Up is down, black is white, dogs with cats.

 

[ForgedBlade]

If we go into bankruptcy, it won't be because of LUAL. sCAL brought so much debt to this merger due to not filing bankruptcy like we did.

Delusional thinking like that could lead to revocation of that Third Class medical of yours on psychiatric grounds.

 

[AirMike]

Delusional thinking like that could lead to revocation of that Third Class medical of yours on psychiatric grounds.

I guess we'll see in August. I've been furloughed for this merger and I intend on holding my rightful seniority after the SLI. Your '05 67 captains will be throwing gear for me soon. Just be glad we aren't showing you the "business end" like we did to Air Willy and the general practitioners at Frontier. If the SLI is anywhere CLOSE to the abomination that sCAL presented, bring NASA forms to work. LOTS of them. That isn't a threat, just a fact. My fellow practitioners will not stand for the outright thievery of jobs that the the sCAL side is attempting. We did everything we could to be good stewards of unionism and bent over backwards in our attempts at unity. To have that thrown in our face and to attempt to staple furloughed pilots that NEVER would have been furloughed if it wasn't for this merger.....well, if you don't see the obvious truth of the matter, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

 

[Daddy69]

So let me get this straight, I am a CAL 2006 hire that can hold 737 Capt and approx 68% on the wide body (787 FO) and my overall relative seniority is 67%. On the CAL proposal I will stay at approx 67% relative seniority. On the UAL proposal I would loose 18% relative seniority. Do you really think that is "fair"?? Why should my career take such a hit and the UAL pilots get a windfall gain in relative seniority? Do you really think that's fair??

 

[densoo]

If we go into bankruptcy, it won't be because of LUAL. sCAL brought so much debt to this merger due to not filing bankruptcy like we did.

Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:42pm EDT
By Karen Brettell
NEW YORK, June 29 (Reuters) - Bond investors are demanding
a high yield to take on even the secured debt of UAL Corp
UAUA.O as declining travel demand continues to hurt revenues
at the company, the parent of United Airlines, and raises the
risk its liquidity could come under stress.
United Airlines on Friday sold $175 million in senior notes
backed by its U.S. aircraft spare parts. The notes were priced
at 90 cents on the dollar to earn a yield of 17 percent,
according to Thomson Reuters data.
"The pricing indicates lack of investor interest and
management desperation," CreditSights analysts Roger King,
Aidas Baublys and Brian Studioso said in a report on Monday.
"Whether it was due to banker exuberance or company
desperation is unclear, but this type of issuance is frequently
just a few steps from the grave. It signifies that sources of
liquidity are up against a limit while investors have yet to
perceive any rising tide of seasonal demand," they said.
UAL denies that the pricing of the debt sale was out of
line with general market conditions.
"The transaction was oversubscribed with terms that reflect
the transaction structure, the nature of the collateral used
and the tight credit market," said UAL spokesperson Jean
Medina, in Chicago.
The sale "will further boost our liquidity as we continue
to take the right actions in response to the difficult
environment, adjusting capacity and reducing our cost
structure," she added. "We continue to take actions to raise
liquidity, having raised more than $500 million in the first
quarter alone."
LIQUIDITY CONCERNS
Concerns that UAL's liquidity could come under pressure
have increased as the outlook for travel demand remains bleak
and the risk of a renewed surge in fuel prices remains a risk.
Credit default swaps on UAL's debt are reflecting a high
bankruptcy concern at 59 percent the sum insured as an upfront
cost, or $5.9 million to insure $10 million for five years, in
addition to annual payments of $500,000, according to data by
Markit.
Fitch Ratings this month cut UAL's issuer credit rating two
notches to CCC, eight steps below investment grade and a deeply
speculative grade.
United could report substantially negative free cash flow
for the final three quarters of 2009, and the airline has $655
million of debt and capital leases maturing in the last three
quarters of the year, Fitch said.
"Even if revenue trends stabilize late in the year, the
airline faces over $1 billion in scheduled debt and capital
lease principal payments next year, raising the probability of
a deepening liquidity crisis," Fitch added.
Management has indicated that an estimated $1.7 billion in
remaining unencumbered assets could be used to improve
liquidity in the future, though much of these assets are older
aircraft and engines that may not be easily monetized, Fitch
said.
"United may have difficulty raising a large amount of new
capital over the near term as credit market conditions remain
very tight," Fitch said.
Meanwhile the ability of bondholders to obtain the parts
backing the recent debt sale in the event of bankruptcy may be
challenged, CreditSights said.
"The history of aircraft parts collateral in bankruptcy has
been spotty," and bondholders in a past case involving the
now-defunct TWA airline were wiped out when a bankruptcy judge
did not want to deal with commingled inventory, the analysts
said.
"Given the inherent limitations of spare parts collateral,
bondholders are betting their principal investment that the
issuer will not default over the next three years. That does
not seem to be a good bet right now," CreditSights said.

 

[AirMike]

It's all really simple. We bought you. If you are in doubt, look at the name on the side of the plane.

 

[densoo]

It's all really simple. We bought you. If you are in doubt, look at the name on the side of the plane.

Ah, now I see why you're confused.

Remember SBC? They bought AT&T and then changed their name--to AT&T. America West? They bought US Airways and changed their name--to US Airways. Who are by the way acquiring bankrupt American Airlines and changing their name--to American Airlines. Marketing chooses the name, not Wall Street.

Check the first page of your "United" Airlines FOM. This may help:

United Airlines, Inc
FAA Designator Code: CALA
Certificate Number: CALA014A

http://av-info.faa.gov/detail.asp?DSGN_CODE=CALA&OPER_FAR=121&OPER_NAME=UNITED+AIRLINES,+INC.

Thanks for bringing the name to the merger though. Much easier to say on the radio.

 

[AirMike]

Your comments describe the dishonesty and debauchery of your MEC since the merger started. Your MEC and your greedy pilot group out to screw every United pilot to gain an edge that you do not deserve. Your SH!THOLE airline would have went into CH-7 in February, March 2011 at the latest if CAL had not merged with UAL, we have Smiseck on record saying it in his testimony to Congress, and he said it in the Chicago Tribune.

I had to do a deep Google search to find a word that describes beyond GREED which personifies the likes of Pierce, Baron, Cook, you, and your pilot group. That word is Ravenousness, "overwhelming desire for more than one is not entitled to."

My hire date is 1/3/90, been able to hold the left seat of the 767 since May 2000 with the exception of the bumps that came in 2003-04, yet your MEC proposed to put me behind '97 hires. To make matters worse your list proposed stapling non-furloughs '97 and later on the bottom of your list, yet you have the nerve to say your list is fair, FY you mentally challenged AH!!!!!!!!!!!!

United historically has waited until the target acquisition went bankrupt then bought the remains at a fire-sale, why Tilton was in a yank to buy your CRAP airline with your CRAP Mis-Management until CAL went bankrupt is in beyond logic?

Now that we are stuck with CAL Mis-management, your GREEDY MEC, and GREEDY pilots like you, I have two consolations. Your Mis-management is going to bring down this whole airline into Bankruptcy, 2015 - 2106 at the latest, and you and your greedy pilot group are going to come along for the ride right along with the rest of us. I maintain that we will not see the fulfillment of this POS contract before concessions are shoved up our collective A$$ as Smiseck is already complaining out loud about rising costs. Second, I can't wait for the post ISL and the elections for the new MEC as we have the majority, and the word out is every one of our reps are pissed big time at the BS your MEC and MC pulled with the ISL, Pierce and very one of your management shill MEC committee members are going to get sent back to the line!!

Payback time is coming to you and your MEC, MF

 

[Flopgut]

Your comments describe the dishonesty and debauchery of your MEC since the merger started. Your MEC and your greedy pilot group out to screw every United pilot to gain an edge that you do not deserve. Your SH!THOLE airline would have went into CH-7 in February, March 2011 at the latest if CAL had not merged with UAL, we have Smiseck on record saying it in his testimony to Congress, and he said it in the Chicago Tribune.

I had to do a deep Google search to find a word that describes beyond GREED which personifies the likes of Pierce, Baron, Cook, you, and your pilot group. That word is Ravenousness, "overwhelming desire for more than one is not entitled to."

My hire date is 1/3/90, been able to hold the left seat of the 767 since May 2000 with the exception of the bumps that came in 2003-04, yet your MEC proposed to put me behind '97 hires. To make matters worse your list proposed stapling non-furloughs '97 and later on the bottom of your list, yet you have the nerve to say your list is fair, FY you mentally challenged AH!!!!!!!!!!!!

United historically has waited until the target acquisition went bankrupt then bought the remains at a fire-sale, why Tilton was in a yank to buy your CRAP airline with your CRAP Mis-Management until CAL went bankrupt is in beyond logic?

Now that we are stuck with CAL Mis-management, your GREEDY MEC, and GREEDY pilots like you, I have two consolations. Your Mis-management is going to bring down this whole airline into Bankruptcy, 2015 - 2106 at the latest, and you and your greedy pilot group are going to come along for the ride right along with the rest of us. I maintain that we will not see the fulfillment of this POS contract before concessions are shoved up our collective A$$ as Smiseck is already complaining out loud about rising costs. Second, I can't wait for the post ISL and the elections for the new MEC as we have the majority, and the word out is every one of our reps are pissed big time at the BS your MEC and MC pulled with the ISL, Pierce and very one of your management shill MEC committee members are going to get sent back to the line!!

Payback time is coming to you and your MEC, MF

You say all that like you think it's going to come as a surprise to us. Let me let you in on a little secret: Not one of us isn't expecting this. We know how to get through mergers. The instant this became a "merger", when you signed the T&PA, and the fact that we are in a SLI process means we've already broken you guys. I know it's going to hurt you guys like hell, but you're going to have to honor a fair deal.

 

[densoo]

...dishonesty and debauchery... greedy pilot... screw every United pilot... SH!THOLE airline... beyond GREED... Ravenousness... mentally challenged AH!!!!!!!!!!!!... your CRAP airline with your CRAP Mis-Management... GREEDY MEC, and GREEDY pilots like you... shoved up our collective A$$... management shill MEC... Payback time is coming... MF

Not sure what that's all about. LCAL may be stapled in the SLI and after LUAL takes over all LEC and MEC positions they may disenfranchise the 4500 LCAL pilots. Oh well. Mow the lawn, fire up the grill and move on. Doesn't change that the name "United" was a marketing decision and we'll always be under the CAL certificate, meaningless as that may be.

 

[flygirlqt]

I have been gone for almost 5 years but even back then NASA reports were outdated and not used vis a vis the ASAP program. I guess Pocono pilot is alive an well so don't bother feeding this troll.