rotary vs. fix wing

Ligeirinho

Missing the good'old time
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Please someone preferably who flew both worlds helos and planes.
I am married w/2 kids, I have 6800 TT I flew MD11, F100, F27, King airs etc... I have not much PIC time due I have been flown in Brazilian major airlines and takes an average of 6 to 7 years to upgrade there. I was furloughed in April 2000 and claimed my american citizenship in September 2000 moved here and got a job in a FEDEX feeder the money is short 27k an year now but i can upgrade to caravan PIC and start at 33k going to 50k in 5 years. The army recruiters conviced me to get an age waver and have all paperwork done to try the warrant officer school to be an Helo pilot they said I can make 40k year by the first year.
Is that correct??
And How is to fly helos?? Is that fun?? I've been flying planes for last 15 years though I can learn fast ?? am i right ??
Do you think be a military will worth for me?? Remember what is in the game here. I am a dual citizen chances to get a good job in USA are not good mainly after 9/11 but also because my background is not all american.
Thank you in advance for all of you who will answer or read my post.

Ligeirinho


God bless you
 

Anaconda

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oh man, be careful in this area.

i could say a lot of things about army aviation, but they are probably not what you want to hear. one thing you could do is check out the message board on www.aptap.org. there is a lot of info on there about what life as a warrant officer aviator is like. surf around the message board or do a search for the info.

you might even want to copy your post to that site and see what types of responsed you get.

i can answer a few questions, however.

is it fun? sure it was fun, when i flew. i averaged about 150 hours a year, which i would say is "average" these days. you could probably do a little better or a little worse depending on what your assignment is. most of your time will be spent doing things outside of flying, and studying, reading about, or generally thinking about flying when you are work, not flying, is highly discouraged.

with your experience i don't think you would have any problem. the initial lurning curve is steep but after you get past that first hurdle it will all come pretty easily. the army's primary helo instructors are an excellent bunch that do a great job, and the training is geared to the lowest common denominator, and believe me, it's LOW!

40 K your first year? i think they are blowing smoke up your A$$. after 10 years on active duty, as a single W2, i didn't even make that much. now, you will be able to pull down a little more since you have a family.

all of the pay info is public record. check out http://www.dfas.army.mil and you should find links to all of the pay info you need.

good luck with whatever you decide!
 

Andy Neill

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Crunching some numbers from the July 2001 pay scales for the military, this is what I found:

WO1 under 2 years service (monthly pay)
1782.60 Base
590.40 Housing with dependents
125.00 Flight pay
160.42 BAS (Food)
2658.42 Total/month = $31,901.04/year

CW2 over 2 years
2315.00 Base
682.50 Housing with dependents
156.00 flight pay
160.42 BAS
3313.92 Total/month = $39,769.04

No such thing as overtime.

Now as to the career. Flying helicopters CAN be fun and it can be scary as all get out. There is MUCH more to an Army flying career than flying. I second Anaconda's advice to visit the aptap website for the big picture of life as an aviation warrant officer.

Will getting a SECRET security clearance be an issue for you? You must have one. If your recruiter thinks you can get one, then it apparently is not an issue.

Are you easily understood in English? That could be a challenge to you.
 

Anaconda

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thanks for crunching numbers andy...

i should point out that my last year was 2000, and that is what i based my pay on. i don't have a pay chart for that year. it was something like $38000 for the year. some of they pays have gone up quite a bit since then. thanks to george w. ???

i crunched a few numbers myself based on a WO1 based at my last duty station, fort hood, tx. i came up with $37341, based on 2002 figures, which are slightly more than the ones that andy used. still a little bit below the recruiters claim. expect your first year pay to be even less, since you will spend some time at the enlisted pay scale while in basic and wocs (about 14 weeks, assuming no delays in tng).

expect a little bit less if you live on base housing, but that comes with advantages such as no rent/mortgage, utilities, etc.
 
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ExAF

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Just remember...helicopters don't fly...they beat the air into submission!:D
 

-E-

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If you go helos you will learn many new things about aviation. Many of the rules you know about flying will be out the window. "Airspeed is life...." not always. "Airways.." not if you can help it... Landing on an 800 ft pinnacle with a foot to spare around your landing gear is pretty challenging and exciting..
You will love helos but you will miss the greased landings..
Good luck..you can't go wrong either way.
 

Nocturnal1

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Ligeirinho's ???'s

Ligeirinho,
I've had the pleasure to fly both and have several things you might want to consider:
1) Do you have any college? If so, I would look at other options, see 2) below. If not then capitalize on the oppotunities in front of you. The Army is a very different place than any other, except the Corps. The methodology for employment (how you do things not your job) is an extension of your boss, i.e. Commander. As an earlier reply already stated all things Army are geared to the lowest common denominator. The Flight training I received was outstanding and prepared me for my first assignment. If you're doing this purely for economics I would do an about face and head in another direction. This choice is long and fraught with challenge and time away from wifey and the little one's, not to mention the bad things that can and will happen.
2)If you do have college then look at the Air Guard or Reserve. I've been Army and Air Force and the quality of life between the 2 goes hands down to the A.F./Guard/Reserve. You'll be treated better, live better, and go to places that actually have names. If you're still a few credits short, check into ROTC or Tutition Aid Programs. Again in the long run you'll be better off. Also the Guard and Reserve and way more liberal with age waivers.

If neither of these appeal to you might I suggest with your background you pursue some different governmental agencies.

Good Luck and God-Speed

P.S. Read the book "ChickenHawk" for an inside view.

;)
 

Ligeirinho

Missing the good'old time
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Thank you everybody for your tips but each one of you pointed for diferent pros and cons.
Ok I need something fast and what I have is a equivalent to associates degree but it was from Brazil not from USA also I'm an american citizen but born abroad what most of the companies here don't like and always give preference for people from here National Guard and Air Force and also Navy only give you a partial age weaver, in other words they just wave you for 2 or 3 years but you need a bachelours degree and 2 or 3 years don't work for me I'm 34 turning 35 in september so just the Army offer me an opportunitty to still flying and give me a job becuase right now I don't have any job and my family is starving.
So I really don't know what to do.
If some of you know whos is hiring and can help me to get an interview because I am tired to send 100 of resumes weekly if no answer or with only an application form back that I fill up and they never talk to me again.
Thank you
GOD blees you all
 

Checks

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Take your first Army paycheck and put it in an envelope marked "Divorce Lawyer".

The odds are good that you will need it before your 6yrs are up.
 

saint

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After serving 9 years as a warrant I would caution your choice in the Army. It has to be something you really want to do, not just to bring in a paycheck. Sure there are some great times but most of your obligation will be spent waiting to separate from the military. If your not on deployment you will be lucky to fly once a week, the rest of the time spent doing whatever odd jobs your commander assigns you. Do you like doing group exercise every morning? Are you ready to live in a tent for weeks or months? Because you will, even while assigned in country. You also should expect to live in every crappy place in the country. Are you ready to live in ft hood, ft polk, ft. bragg, etc. And don't forget the year in Korea you will likely spend without your family. Don't get me wrong, the military was a great place to gain experience and I'm proud to have served my country. However, you already have experience and sounds like you just want a paycheck. Be careful what you decide.
 

Anaconda

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Good advice...

it seems that in my experience when guys start asking questions about the warrant officer program on message boards they already have their mind made up. i've seen questions like this posted on a number of different message boards but i don't think i've ever seen anybody change their mind about joining up, even after hearing all the negative info.

you have received a lot of good advice on this thread and i sincerely hope you take it to heart. discuss it with your wife/family before you do anything and commit yourself to what could be the most miserable seven years of your life.

good luck!
 

Ligeirinho

Missing the good'old time
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So what to do?
I am unemployed right now with no other perspective. I can be a truck driver, do you think it will be better than military life?? I don't think so separation and live in bad places is about the same and I will be on this chaotic trafic all the time.
How to get a bachelors degree free?? any idea?? because I don't have one I just have a equivalent to associate degree.
and how to compete equally if I am foreign with no military background?
I thank you guys for all information I really don't wanna go but I need to feed my kids and I have no money to do that in short time.
Any other ideas? I am really open, like I said I don't wanna go they are harresting me to go and I am not seeing any other light in the tunnel.
I have been applying for about 100 jobs last month the majority of them I never received any answer some I received an application form but they always invited somebody else for interview but me.
And I know military background helps a lot to get an iterview they always have some preference for military backgrounds
 

saint

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I understand your position and maybe the military will be your best option but just think about this. Right now the airline industry is in a turndown. What will it be like a year or two from now? If you go Army it won't matter because you will likely be just finishing woc school in Ft Rucker and be starting that 6 year committment. Think about how old you will be when that obligation is over. What are your options at that time? Maybe you will need to deliver pizza's for awhile to feed you family but at least you can pursue civilian avation when the industry starts hiring again. As far as school goes, enlist in the National Guard (you may want to explore other banches if you go this route). You will make a little cash, get college money and not become obligated to the Army for 6 or 7 years. Do you live near an active army base? Go to a unit and talk to some warrants that are your age. I hate to sound so negative on the military buts it's not just a job, it is a complete lifestyle and one that cannot be changed for years once you start.
 

80drvr

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If you want to fly helos, you might want to consider the Coast Guard. They're hiring and will send you through Navy Pilot Training as an Ensign. All CG, Marine & Navy pilots go through the same syllabus for the first stage of flight training, so if you change your mind and want to stay fixed wing, you can go C-130 or HU-25. The helo options are HH-60 and HH-65. For the most part the duty locations are pretty good and the deployments are more palatable that DOD.
 

Ligeirinho

Missing the good'old time
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Hi 80drvr,
I think you lost something here I have no universtity degre and 34 years old coast guard don't even car about my existence without the requirements.
 
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