Robert Crandall's response to an AA pilot.

[redflyer65]

Put very plainly.....

Anyone that enters bankruptcy (management-wise) shouldn't get anything on the other side....ZERO, ZILCH.

Here's a clue.....they are the ones that mis-managed the company into bankruptcy in the first place. The bankruptcy laws need to be changed to show this failure.

 

[Lear70]

Put very plainly.....

Anyone that enters bankruptcy (management-wise) shouldn't get anything on the other side....ZERO, ZILCH.

Here's a clue.....they are the ones that mis-managed the company into bankruptcy in the first place. The bankruptcy laws need to be changed to show this failure.

Well said.

 

[pilotyip]

[

Sure, you can use "industry average" rates... So long as CEO's and senior management are paid similarly to other airlines, which include the same "peer group" airlines that the pilots are being compared to, including bankrupt airlines, smaller airlines such as Allegiant and Virgin America, etc., and using total compensation, including stock options, etc.

I have always found it disingenuous for senior management with compensation in the multi-millions of dollars which runs through several BILLION dollars of capital and runs a company that is operating on a bankruptcy-era contract into bankruptcy again themselves, to then ask labor for further reductions when they are not willing to reduce their compensation similarly.

When a CEO gets to walk away from a "successful" bankruptcy reorganization with millions in shares of new stock and labor walks away with pay cuts, it seems clear something is wrong with the system.

Here we go again, yes their salaries are obnoxious, but in the big picture they are peanuts. I saw an article in ATW in 2001 that stated at DAL there were 17 members of top management made more than the top DAL Captain. The combined top 17 salaries equaled less than 1/6 of 1% of the combined pilot salaries. If management worked for free all pilots in the company would get a 1/10 of 1% raise. (for a $100K per year pilot that would be $3/wk increase in take home) Boy that raise would really make the pilot group happy.

FedEx is an airline that has expanded into trucking.

and a very successful trucking company at that, if you send it overnight to anyplace within 500 miles, it is charged air shipment rates and goes on a truck.

 

[G4dude]

[

Here we go again, yes their salaries are obnoxious, but in the big picture they are peanuts. I saw an article in ATW in 2001 that stated at DAL there were 17 members of top management made more than the top DAL Captain. The combined top 17 salaries equaled less than 1/6 of 1% of the combined pilot salaries. If management worked for free all pilots in the company would get a 1/10 of 1% raise. (for a $100K per year pilot that would be $3/wk increase in take home) Boy that raise would really make the pilot group happy.


and a very successful trucking company at that, if you send it overnight to anyplace within 500 miles, it is charged air shipment rates and goes on a truck.

Yip, you are my hero.

 

[G4dude]

Put very plainly.....

Anyone that enters bankruptcy (management-wise) shouldn't get anything on the other side....ZERO, ZILCH.

Here's a clue.....they are the ones that mis-managed the company into bankruptcy in the first place. The bankruptcy laws need to be changed to show this failure.

Priceless! Unions drive a company under, and the union members blame management for spending so much on labor.

 

[Lear70]

Priceless! Unions drive a company under, and the union members blame management for spending so much on labor.

Really? Unions did it?

American's union contracts were forged under the threat of a bankruptcy filing by American in 2003.

The unions agreed to contracts calling for $1.62 billion a year in wage and benefit CONCESSIONS to keep the company from canceling wage, benefit and pension agreements in bankruptcy court. The contracts became amendable in May 2008.

AA 767 Pay

CA top $169
FO top $122

DL 767 Pay

CA top $197
FO top $134

AA 737 Pay

CA top $166
FO top $113

AirTran 737 Pay

CA top $171
FO top $107


But yeah, it's those over-paid pilots who created 12 years of sustained yearly losses of hundreds of millions per year...

They're paid under their industry peers, yet Management wants MORE pay and productivity cuts. I'd say the business model that management has created over the least decade plus is flawed... but what do I know.

 

[LearLove]

and a very successful OUTSOURCED trucking company at that

There - fixed it for you Yip. When the purple and green truck shows up its not FDX.

 

[njcapt]

Crandall wants new B scales. How innovative.

I really give him a lot of props as being one of the last REAL airline leaders, even if I didn't like being an employee under his rule. Unfortunately, I think even the great Crandini can't make a silk purse out of the sow's ear the airline industry has become. Whether AMR management gives into pay cuts commensurate with the labor groups or not, if they are allowed to skate with their ********************ing immoral "retention bonuses" they will never respect the employees that truly generate revenue rather than bullsh1t.

 

[waveflyer]

Yip-
What losses do you think AA has incurred by natural lost morale over the management retention bonuses- you keep saying their pay is peanuts- it's the ripple effect that cost billions in inefficiency as each employee and each group operates with a 'me-first' mentality

Crandall barely mentions and ignores the effect the bonuses have had on the company- if you Yip, took almost 40% in payouts so that your company could avoid bk, then mgmt took that money for themselves, leaving the company in no better position- then entered bk a decade later and imposed ridiculous cuts on top of the one's you already took, you'd be good with that.

Bob mentions respecting the legal rights management has in the process in order to gain respect, and I am reminded of the ultimate corruption- when one has enough wealth and power to make theft LEGAL.

As for you, Cheap Greek- ford and Harrison paying your paycheck with those 20 posts- ?

Funny how so many new names are popping up on these forums w/ anti-union sentiments- fall for that and you're an idiot- prereq for union busting 101

I respect to no end AA pilots. You aren't in a work action- you are stuck with no good choices, in an abrogated contract where you must be careful- this is not a game or an excuse to gain leverage- I'd be covering my ass every which way from Sunday if I worked there too

 

[pilotyip]

OK OK OK, it is all management's fault they are greedy and incapable of doing anything, but did not Bob say the pilots had a chance to step into a management role and have say in the running of the company, where they could provide the guidance to make AAL the perfect airline?

That proposal, if approved, would have awarded the pilots a generous piece of equity, would have allowed the pilot group a substantial voice in the governance of the new company and did not – so far as I know – impose conditions materially different from those in effect at other major airlines. Thus, I was and remain mystified as to why the pilots – having turned down an agreement materially better than the company’s original proposals, are now angry that alternative proposals are being implemented. Wasn’t that always the clear alternative to approval?