Freight Dog said:
Surplus,
You've just shown me why you back RJDC. An old guy not going anywhere. You and I have different priorities. This "kid" doesn't want to retire from ComASA, even if you as an old salt do.
As anticipated, you "heard" but you didn't "listen". The issues have nothing to do with your priorities vs. my priorities and nothing to do with where you would like to retire vs. where I will retire.
I'm all in favor of your being able to get the cream puff major airline job that you want. I've had it myself and it is very nice. The question is, how do you get there tomorrow.
More Scope of the wrong kind isn't going to do it for you.
The "best scope" in the industry (acording to the mainline gurus and those of you that sniff around behind them) is at USAirways. The only thing it has accomplished is to help their bad management put their airline under. They are now desperately trying to eliminate that perfect scope in the hope of survival.
If tomorrow the wish of the Delta pilots were to come true and all the RJs at Comair and ASA were parked, the only thing it would accomplish is to put another 2000 of them on the streets and the Company in danger of bankruptcy.
The airline must be able to operate the most efficient equipment available to do a particular job. Being forced by Scope to use a 737 with 35 passengers on board is a recepie for economic disaster.
FDJ tells us, correctly, that there is nothing in his contract that prevents the company from operating RJs "at the mainline". What he does NOT tell us is what concessions he is willing to make so that it becomes economically feasible to do so.
I believe there would not be much difference between the contract that would apply to a mainline operated RJ and the better regional contracts that exist today. Mainline pilots aren't willing to accept that and that's why they don't fly any RJs.
Of all the "real" major airlines that operate today (sorry, but Aloha isn't one of them) there is only one (1) that doesn't own and operate at least one "regional subsidiary" and that's UAL.
AA owns AE; DAL owns CMR & ASA, NWA owns EX1, CAL owns COEX, AAA owns ALG, PDT, PSA. Even little ALA owns Horizon. USAirways is the only one who's subsidiaries don't fly jets, and whose "scope" has limited the subcontractors to 70 RJs. Itself not much more than a regional carrier, U has been hurt severely by this flawed idea and misapplied scope.
United has "scope". In their last contract they had to relax it substantially and they did. As we write, they are not enforcing even the relaxed scope. If they did, ACA and SKYW and AWA would each have to park a number of their RJs and furlough the pilots. The follow up to that would be more furloughs at UAL.
All the majors I mentioned are in fact operating regional jets, just like FDJ says they can. They are just not flying them with mainline pilots. If they were, the "high paying jobs" that everyone wants, including you, would still not be in the RJs.
If the RJ pilots were all on the same list as the mainline pilots, the only thing your "new" job at the mainline would guarantee you, that you don't have today, is the eventual access to the bigger equipment without having to change employers. It would not produce any fantastic change in compensation or work rules.
If instead of being "scoped out" by Aloha you were on the same list, there would still be furloughs like there were. You would be the furloughed pilot instead of the more senior Aloha pilot. The junior pilots at Aloha who did get furloughed would be flying those Dash 8s (as they should be). The only thing there "scope" has done is keep them out of aiplanes their company operates and give you their job.
That is exactly what "scope" at Delta has done. The airline (Delta) is operating and owns hundreds of RJs.
What FDJ doesn't admit is the RJs are already at the mainline . He just doesn't get to fly them.
Adding more "scope" to his contract is not going to eliminate the RJs that Delta already owns and operates. It is too late to do that now and the pilots that already fly them (CMR & ASA) are going to fight for their jobs. We are already doing so. The Company has found its way around the existing Scope. It will do the same tomorrow if that scope follows the same course of trying to keep the RJ from operating.
Do we need Scope at all? H**L yes! However, effective Scope must scope the Company's flying IN, not scope it OUT.
At this stage of the game, the ONLY way to do that is to combine the pilot groups into a single group. Until the mainline pilots recognize that fact, their effort to stop the RJ is doomed to failure.
It will NOT be possible to achieve one seniority list if mainline pilots insist on applying their present contracts to the RJ operations. The Company can't realistically agree to that and never will. Therefore, we the pilots must find a way to do it that merges the lists
without merging the contracts.
One of the first things we need to do is
stop worrying about pilots that are not yet employed by the Company and take care of the pilots that already are. I don't care if you get a job at my airline tomorrow, if I have to give up my job today to make it happen. My first concern is for current Delta pilots and that includes ASA/CMR.
FDJ and his peers do not consider CMR & ASA pilots to be Delta pilots. While I understand that, I also think it is foolish. We ARE Delta pilots, Delta just calls us something else. It really doesn't matter whether you call us Delta pilots or S**t pilots. What does matter is that we are flying Delta airplanes now and we're on a separate seniority list; divided.
Delta pilots did that to themselves. How?
By unsuccessfully attempting to scope us out, instead of scoping us in. It is not having Scope that's bad. The problem is the misapplication of the intent of Scope.
As I said, I've seen what a firm scope can do for a mainline group and how it affects its regional affiliate, and in my case, I like it. It boils down to management and how they run things.
What you're really telling me is that you don't understand what you're seeing. You haven't really grasped the significance of what you think you see so you are misinterpreting its value. You're judging the car by the paint job, when you ought to looking at the engine and the power train.
Aloha pilots needed to put those airplanes that you fly and the pilots that fly them on a single seniority list from day one. Use a supplemental agreement (if necessary) to cover your pay and rules. Instead they created two airlines just like everybody else. As a result, the Company can't fly where it needs to, how it needs to, Aloha pilots that are senior to you are furloughed and you're flying in a seat that should be occupied by a furloughed Aloha pilot. Scope your way or their way makes no sense at all.
Scope my way, which is the original way, needs to be restored.
As for the lowest-bidder... as an "old experienced salt" perhaps you can tell me why do you have your flying farmed out to another airline?
Yes I can tell you. It's because the wrong kind of scope is in place at Delta airlines, thanks to Delta pilots and ALPA.
Now I see so many of you pissed off that MCO flying is gonna go away to a lower bidder. Isn't this exactly what's been going on with mainline losing flying to its regional affiliates? Now it's trickled down to the regional level and you don't like it... hmmm. You reap what you sow.
Its happening because ALPA created exemptions to Scope, ALPA permitted subcontracting, ALPA refused to apply its merger policy, and mainline pilots were so intent on not sharing a drinking fountain with regional scum, that they were willing to do without water all together. That may have worked while they had a huge supply of champagne, but now that's run out and the "scum" control the water supply.
Is it the same as the mainline losing flying to regional affiliates. No, it isn't. The mainline never lost any flying to regional affilitates for they did not operate that equipment. Now that the mainline does operate RJs any flying that goes to rjs outside the company is a loss of flying.
CHQ doesn't take any flying from the 737s and DC-9s that Delta operates. It takes fying from the Cl-65s that Delta operates.
When we understand what Scope should do and apply it correctly, its a great thing that we MUST have. When misused, as it has been, it becomes an enemy. 
