RJ`s for AirTran

[tubelcane]

IF this is the future of Airtan for us hired in the last 2 years, it may be time to dust off the log book and start putting out apps. What is the deal, everytime I get somewhere it turns into a sh$# sandwich. Are guys actually happy to fly smaller planes? And make even less $? That's not what I came here for, I don't know about everyone else. How long till you could get back to the widebody? I never thought I might entertain going back to the sky nazis......ugghhh the hits just keep on coming!!!!!

 

[CitationLover]

You think you have a good contract at Eagle?!? Please, don't give us any more advice on contract issues at AirTran.

no reread what i said. are you a woman and reading into what i am saying? i stated that with the downturn the long contract is working out well as no negotiations were there for givebacks (we do that well enough anyways with our 4 yr negotiation windows) or paycuts. our contract was designed to put us smack dab in the middle (average it calls it) and it certainly does that.

vote no on the TA is my advice. lear is doing a good enough job getting the message out. the blended rates for jetblue's 190 rates should be a good lowball number to start the 70-100 seat rates. why not tie scope to the number of FA's in the cabin, ergo have a 1 FA scope limit? vote no for the b scale fo rates.

 

[Lear70]

the blended rates for jetblue's 190 rates should be a good lowball number to start the 70-100 seat rates.

They're not even close.

I just got out of the conference room here in ops talking to these guys... they really DO buy into this whole crap, even though I point out the deficiencies and ask them if they have any other GOOD reasons to vote YES and they have no reply.

The starting wage is the same in the F/O seat, meaning it's variable and can be as low as that $30-something rate previously mentioned.

2nd year goes to $46, then about $2 more per year each year of seniority as an F/O in Year 0, $2-3 more in year 2, same for years 3 and 4 of the Agreement.

The problem is the NPA isn't comparing them to the blended rates at jetBlue and is using all the regionals to figure out a pay rate. So the rates are about $15-20 less per hour than jetBlue.

The CA rates never break $100 per hour in Year 0 of the Agreement for ANY longevity. They start out around $85 an hour and go up $3 per year in longevity in Year 0, another $2-3 per year for each year thereafter.

These rates are $30-$35 less per hour than the jetBlue blended rates.

I think the answer to that is... umm.... NO!

 

[CitationLover]

They're not even close.

I just got out of the conference room here in ops talking to these guys... they really DO buy into this whole crap, even though I point out the deficiencies and ask them if they have any other GOOD reasons to vote YES and they have no reply.

The starting wage is the same in the F/O seat, meaning it's variable and can be as low as that $30-something rate previously mentioned.

2nd year goes to $46, then about $2 more per year each year of seniority as an F/O in Year 0, $2-3 more in year 2, same for years 3 and 4 of the Agreement.

The problem is the NPA isn't comparing them to the blended rates at jetBlue and is using all the regionals to figure out a pay rate. So the rates are about $15-20 less per hour than jetBlue.

The CA rates never break $100 per hour in Year 0 of the Agreement for ANY longevity. They start out around $85 an hour and go up $3 per year in longevity in Year 0, another $2-3 per year for each year thereafter.

These rates are $30-$35 less per hour than the jetBlue blended rates.

I think the answer to that is... umm.... NO!

i agree jetblue should be a starting point, not republic/shuttle america, compass, or the god awful ex mid atlantic rates.

 

[Kharma Police]

no reread what i said. are you a woman and reading into what i am saying? i stated that with the downturn the long contract is working out well as no negotiations were there for givebacks (we do that well enough anyways with our 4 yr negotiation windows) or paycuts. our contract was designed to put us smack dab in the middle (average it calls it) and it certainly does that.

vote no on the TA is my advice. lear is doing a good enough job getting the message out. the blended rates for jetblue's 190 rates should be a good lowball number to start the 70-100 seat rates. why not tie scope to the number of FA's in the cabin, ergo have a 1 FA scope limit? vote no for the b scale fo rates.

I decided within five minutes to vote no on our TA. I don't need any convincing or the need to debate, the whole thing needs to be re-worked. I hope others feel the same way but thanks for the advice. Best of luck in training, and don't judge Atlanta by what you see close by the Alteon facility.

 

[fam62c]

If AAI buys Midwest you will have RJ's. Skyway has 12 small (32 seaters) jets and Skywest is now flying 50 seaters under contract. If AAI flushes Skyway and Skywest it will mean that service to many smaller cities will be lost out of MKE which is one of the things that scares MKE residents about AAI. AAI has stated publically that they will not cut smaller markets. Also, Skyway is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Midwest and it looks like AAI will soon own both companies. Skyway is not viable with it's current fleet; it's just too small to have any economy of scale and any real value as it is now. Midwest has pretty much wasted any potential that Skyway had and elected to grow the smaller airplanes by bringing in Skywest. What is AAI going to do about Skyway? It looks like the AAI pilots don't want Skyway to have 70 seaters and AAI says they don't want 50 seaters so where does this leave the Skyway pilots if AAI buys Midwest? I certainly don't blame AAI pilots for wanting to keep the flying under one roof but that will effectively eliminate any future potential, and probably the jobs of an entire pilot group.

 

[Kharma Police]

If AAI buys Midwest you will have RJ's. Skyway has 12 small (32 seaters) jets and Skywest is now flying 50 seaters under contract. If AAI flushes Skyway and Skywest it will mean that service to many smaller cities will be lost out of MKE which is one of the things that scares MKE residents about AAI. AAI has stated publically that they will not cut smaller markets. Also, Skyway is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Midwest and it looks like AAI will soon own both companies. Skyway is not viable with it's current fleet; it's just too small to have any economy of scale and any real value as it is now. Midwest has pretty much wasted any potential that Skyway had and elected to grow the smaller airplanes by bringing in Skywest. What is AAI going to do about Skyway? It looks like the AAI pilots don't want Skyway to have 70 seaters and AAI says they don't want 50 seaters so where does this leave the Skyway pilots if AAI buys Midwest? I certainly don't blame AAI pilots for wanting to keep the flying under one roof but that will effectively eliminate any future potential, and probably the jobs of an entire pilot group.

I would like the Skyway pilots to be stapled to the AirTran list if it is decided to get rid of the 1900s and DoJets.

 

[instructordude]

I would like the Skyway pilots to be stapled to the AirTran list if it is decided to get rid of the 1900s and DoJets.

DOH and nothing less.

 

[Kharma Police]

DOH and nothing less.

I was thinking super senority for Skyway pilots but I guess DOH would be OK.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Please. please educate people on new 100-seat rates in this TA. NPA didn't even put that information out and is keeping it hidden till someone asks. Then they go about telling how AirTran has no interest in 100-seat Rjs and its there just in-case.

This is a huge threat to anyone who has less than 8 years with the company, regardless of seat or aircraft flown, as half of our fleet can be replaced by Rjs.

Let AirTran pilots fly Rjs. DO NOT ALLOW THE COMPANY to INTRODUCE NEW RATES outside the ones we already have.


Lear, thanks for making "NO" stickers...I'm getting it tattooed on my forehead!

 

[instructordude]

I was thinking super senority for Skyway pilots but I guess DOH would be OK.

Absolutely!:laugh:

 

[KQRdr]

Rumor is floating around that AP was offered a CP spot after Floy...

 

[instructordude]

Rumor is floating around that AP was offered a CP spot after Floy...

Heard the same thing and he is getting like 400K in stock options.

 

[Kharma Police]

Heard the same thing and he is getting like 400K in stock options.

That's all, I heard it was like, bunches more!!!

 

[Lear70]

I would like the Skyway pilots to be stapled to the AirTran list if it is decided to get rid of the 1900s and DoJets.

Agreed. If we effectively eliminated a company due to our fleet plans, it's only fair to bring that company's pilots onto the seniority list.

Hope it goes that way and doesn't hose a complete group of people because, either way the company doesn't want anything less than 70-seaters, they've said that before, and they want them out-sourced which ISN'T going to work.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

I would like the Skyway pilots to be stapled to the AirTran list if it is decided to get rid of the 1900s and DoJets.

It would be pay raise for most of them. We should give them a job if skyway goes away.

 

[CitationLover]

I decided within five minutes to vote no on our TA. I don't need any convincing or the need to debate, the whole thing needs to be re-worked. I hope others feel the same way but thanks for the advice. Best of luck in training, and don't judge Atlanta by what you see close by the Alteon facility.

if its by the Holiday Inn North (where the Delta pilots stay) I know what you mean......

 

[CitationLover]

If AAI buys Midwest you will have RJ's. Skyway has 12 small (32 seaters) jets and Skywest is now flying 50 seaters under contract. If AAI flushes Skyway and Skywest it will mean that service to many smaller cities will be lost out of MKE which is one of the things that scares MKE residents about AAI. AAI has stated publically that they will not cut smaller markets. Also, Skyway is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Midwest and it looks like AAI will soon own both companies. Skyway is not viable with it's current fleet; it's just too small to have any economy of scale and any real value as it is now. Midwest has pretty much wasted any potential that Skyway had and elected to grow the smaller airplanes by bringing in Skywest. What is AAI going to do about Skyway? It looks like the AAI pilots don't want Skyway to have 70 seaters and AAI says they don't want 50 seaters so where does this leave the Skyway pilots if AAI buys Midwest? I certainly don't blame AAI pilots for wanting to keep the flying under one roof but that will effectively eliminate any future potential, and probably the jobs of an entire pilot group.

i posted this in another thread. Skyway would have 2% of the current AAI ASM's (not including Midwest).

 

[newnan]

Lets get one thing straight. If your talking and E190 - 195 its no RJ. CEOs love to group it in with RJs but it is not. The 190 has a Max Gross of 114,200 flies at 410 and had range of 2000miles. It does every thing the 737 200, DC-9, F100 does only better and more efficient. The 717 is so close to what this ac does I cant help but believe it is just a way for the pilots to do the exact same job for 25% less. My hope is that over time this will be recognized and put more pressure to raise the pay rates across the board. If this was a Boeing 190 or Airbus 190 we would not be having these discussions. Bottom line is dont be fooled by the name Embraer.

"Subservice cannot include carriers that operate aircraft with greater than 106 seats or greater than 104,000lbs."

That means we cannot use a subservice that meets our 86 seat limit if they also have other jets on their property with gross weights over 104,000lbs (per the bullet points). I wonder what happens if they aquire those heavier aircraft after penning the deal with FL.

I'd like to see it kept at 70 seats, but they didn't ask me.

 

[Lear70]

They don't have to ask for you to voice your opinion.

Just vote no, that'll pretty much tell them all they need to know.