Right Eng Fail and Fire FMS & A/P inop on a missed MEM 36L

[xanderman]

my .02

If you asked for a hard ride than i'd say you got it! If you declare an emergency you have the right to continue straight ahead (hopefully you won't hit anything though). I would agree with others here in that a missed approach procedure should be flown exactly as stated unless otherwise instructed (radios working or not). I would say that there was nothing there that he could technically bust you on.
Andy

 

[DCitrus9]

#1: "emergency aircraft" You tell ATC what you need/want. He can move other aircraft, or offer a suggestion (turn left to avoid that mountain!). You will only bust if you are wishy-washy about the control/safety of your aircraft or if you fail to perform the engine out procedures properly. In a normal scenario, the missed is controlling in all situations (as written, turn alt. is not a suggestion) unless ATC requests otherwise.

 

[AvroJockey]

Your Instructor is an Idiot!

Fly the published missed approach procedure!!! Unless your given alternate instructions by ATC - IN RADAR CONTACT, or VFR/VMC.

The missed approach procedures assure obstical clearance, declaring an emergency won't. If you try turning later in ROA, SCE, or any other "special" airport you will end up like a Pinnacle Airlines hat emblem (CFIT accident)

Additionally, acceleration altitidues don't apply to missed approaches. Airlines may incorporate similar standard altitudes in MAP profiles to keep things standard with TO profiles, but that altitude doesn't assure obstical clearance in a MAP

I'm assuming your a PCL pilot. If so you need to corner any of our Avro guys that have flown in Aspen, because they are all too aware of the dangers of not flying the published missed.

Tim

 

["Next Wave"]

I agree with DCITRUS9

The key is you declared an emergency. All regs pretty much go out the window.
You take total control over the situation. You tell the control what you are "going to do" not "can we do". You have now have one job to do get the freakin' aircraft on the ground safely.

(And how many mountains are in TENN.?, Again do what you need to do to get on the ground, they cant fail you for that)

 

[crxpilot]

Are we talking about ASAP data?

Perhaps your instructor was referring to some sort of ASAP/Aerodata that requires a different kind of missed approach with an engine out than the normal missed that is published on the charts.

 

[AvroJockey]

Perhaps your instructor was referring to some sort of ASAP/Aerodata that requires a different kind of missed approach with an engine out than the normal missed that is published on the charts.

Since when did Aerodata change missed approach criteria? I've only seen departure procedures.

Tim

 

[crxpilot]

Ah you are absolutely right Tim. I was in the departure procedure thinking, I forgot he was asking about missed approaches.

Since when did Aerodata change missed approach criteria? I've only seen departure procedures.

Tim

 

[SoBeFlyer]

I did a little research...

First off, here's a blurb from part 91:

Sec. 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for,
and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot
in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required
to meet that emergency.
(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph
(b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a
written report of that deviation to the Administrator.

Second, the "Climb to 1000 then climbing turn to 5000" in the MAP is there for one of two reasons:
(a) There is an obstacle in the direction of turn that requires 1000' MSL to clear it safely, or
(b) The people who live in the direction of turn have bugged their congressperson about aircraft noise.

Checking the pubs, there are no "Non-standard Departure Minimums" for 36L at KMEM. This should give you the warm and fuzzy that your transport certified jet can climb above any nearby obstacle with the critical engine inoperative, especially since you are performing an approach climb (climb started at approach end, not departure end). This means that the 1000' prior to turn is for Joe/Jane voter, who I say can sc*&w themselves when an airplane is in trouble. For your concern about turning ABOVE 1000' instead of AT 1000', I'd refer any jacka*$ complaining about that to Part 91.3(b) as above, and then tell them you will write the letter explaining yourself to comply with Part 91.3(c).

My $0.02.

 

[rgd]

The missed approach is what give you your obstacle clearance. You would have to make your turn at the prescribed altitude on the missed approach instructions. Your instructor is wrong and yes, you would bust. The 1000' straight out is only for a takeoff, unless there is some DP, or possibly if it was vmc and you could visually maintain obstacle avoidance on a go around (not a missed approach). Granted you can delcare an emergency and do whatever you want to do to meet that emergency, but that missed is there for a reason and as a professional pilot, you should (not saying you don't) have the skills to handle this situation. Every person out there that has taken a 121 checkride has had to do it. As far as a checkride goes, you don't get the option of declaring and going straight out. The fed is gonna what to see you do the missed single engine, with the proper turns and leveling at the proper acceleration altitude. You should climb to 1000' msl and make your right turn, level off at 1320 msl (1000' agl) accelerate and retract flaps and then climb to 5000' msl at Vt, enter your hold. Your instructer needs some serious re-training. Good luck.

 

["Next Wave"]

You can declare and fly straight out(if you want)

SOBEFLYER is correct, 91.3
I dont understand why people think that just because your in the sim
you have to fly what you think the examiner or POI wants to see, not true
they cannot fail you for declaring and taking control of the situation. If fact thats really how we would do it in "real life" . You'll handle it exactly how you train for it.

I did a little research...

First off, here's a blurb from part 91:

Sec. 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for,
and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot
in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required
to meet that emergency.
(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph
(b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a
written report of that deviation to the Administrator.

Second, the "Climb to 1000 then climbing turn to 5000" in the MAP is there for one of two reasons:
(a) There is an obstacle in the direction of turn that requires 1000' MSL to clear it safely, or
(b) The people who live in the direction of turn have bugged their congressperson about aircraft noise.

Checking the pubs, there are no "Non-standard Departure Minimums" for 36L at KMEM. This should give you the warm and fuzzy that your transport certified jet can climb above any nearby obstacle with the critical engine inoperative, especially since you are performing an approach climb (climb started at approach end, not departure end). This means that the 1000' prior to turn is for Joe/Jane voter, who I say can sc*&w themselves when an airplane is in trouble. For your concern about turning ABOVE 1000' instead of AT 1000', I'd refer any jacka*$ complaining about that to Part 91.3(b) as above, and then tell them you will write the letter explaining yourself to comply with Part 91.3(c).

My $0.02.