Right Eng Fail and Fire FMS & A/P inop on a missed MEM 36L

[hmmm]

Need help from experienced long term aviators that have been taking Captain check rides for many years in 121 jet service.

Missed Approach Memphis TENN ILS 36L Index 11-6 16Jan04

I am conducting a Missed on 36L traffic on runway 1800 RVR

Go Around Go Around Thrust Positive Rate Gear Up

Speed Mode Bug V2 Right engine Fails, Right Engine Catches Fire

@ 400agl Heading Mode 1/2 Bank White Needles (FMS CDI) Auto Tune

@ 600agl Autopilot On oops No Auto Pilot, Whats the problem.
Non flying Pilot "Right Engine Fire and Fail
Flying Pilot "Do the memory items for Engine Fire

@ 1000 agl (1300 MSL) Flying Pilot calls "ALT Mode" NFP selects Alt Mode and continues Memory items for Engine Fire

@ v2 plus 20 "Flaps UP" NFP then continue memory items

@ VT " FP calls "Select Speed Mode Deselect half bank Set Max Continuos Thrust, I have the radios Complete the QRH for Engine Fire and follow that with the QRH for Auto Pilot Failure.

"Mem Tower Call sign so and so declareing a emergency with a engine fire indication request rwy heading climbout. Mem Tower says No. Call sign so and so executing the published missed. Flying Pilot tells NFP "Give me a left heading to intercept the 323 radial of Memphis VOR select my course indicator to 323 outbound and select freq 117.5 to active and select NAV Mode and go green needles on your side (Raw Data cdi on NFP side) Continue the QRH."

Did this pilot just bust.

Missed Approach reads
"Climb to 1000' then climbing right turn to 5000' outbound via the MEM VOR R-323 to MREON INT/D18.0 and hold.

The above I just did in the sim.

I wanted to tun out at 700 agl which is 1000' MSL for ILS 36L in Memphis with a TDZE of 321'

For our profile this would be right after selecting the auto pilot on at 600 agl.

The instructor said the Missed Approach procedure is only for if the radios are out.

He said the "Climb to 1000' MSL then climbing LEFT turn is the minimum altitude to turn.

In the scenario above I would have turned at or above 1300 MSL which is just after selecting a climb on the Flight Director at VT speed aprox 170 kts.

1300 MSL is 1000 AGL which is our companies acceleration altitude.


I have been sitting here lookinga all over the regs the internet and the AIM to fin out if what the instructor said is correct that 1000 MSL is the minimum only for the turn and that I can turn a little later after the priority of taking care of the engine out profile.

Please help before my check ride.

Don't want to turn out late if its not legal.

This was the worst the instructor could find for me.

Right engine Failure

Right engine Fire

Autopilot Inop

FMS Inop



Thanks Really Apreciate the help




.

 

[becket]

First of all, Your instructor is a D-Bag.


Secondly, compounded, (multiple simultaneous) failures during a check ride are illegal.

Thirdly, When will these P0-Dunk Rj outfits join the real world of aviation? That scenario tells me one of three things, Your instructor is either low time, inexperienced, or a Lifer.

 

[hmmm]

Thanks but I asked him to give me the worst I could get on a checkride.

Still need an answer though. Thanks anyway.




.

 

[Freight Dog]

"Mem Tower Call sign so and so declaring an emergency.

Those are the magic words, my man!

However, I don't think he can bust you on a compound emergency. You should talk to your ALPA Training Committee guys because it's an illegitimate scenario for a checkride.

 

[hmmm]

Is a right eng failure (twin jet) that the checklist is completed for and the engine is secured and then they give you an elevator autopilot servo hard over (down) with no A/P failure indication other than the aircraft symbol on the PFD departing from the Flight director a legitimate scenario?

Still looking for the turnout answer here though. Thanks.



.

 

[Flyer2000]

I just had my checkride in the CL-65. You may ONLY have one emergency at a time. You COULD have a right engine fire and subsequent failure as it is an associated emergency [as is the subsequent generator, and hydrualic pump failures]. What cannot happen is a right engine fire/failure and an auto pilot failure, or as you mentioned PCU failure........they are not related to the engine fire/failure. After you handle the engine fire/failure and the evaluator gives you the "new day, new airplane" you could see a PCU runaway/failure, or any other emergency he/she wishes, but only one at a time. Hope this helps. Good luck on your ride.

 

[flyingitalian]

Missed Approach reads
"Climb to 1000' then climbing right turn to 5000' outbound via the MEM VOR R-323 to MREON INT/D18.0 and hold.

The above I just did in the sim.

I wanted to tun out at 700 agl which is 1000' MSL for ILS 36L in Memphis with a TDZE of 321'

For our profile this would be right after selecting the auto pilot on at 600 agl.




.

Im not familiar with your profile, but missed instruction on appraoch plates are MSL not AGL. If your procedures are different somehow

Did you actually fail or was it a practice? Sounds like you were practicing for a checkride, for to say "give me a hard ride" on an actual checkride would be insane. Is the early turn the reason for the failure?

 

[Nindiri]

As far as I know, the turn is required at that altitude. It sounds like your instructor is confusing it with the minimum altitudes on the approach, the underlined ones. Of course, I've been known to be wrong.

BTW, while it's true that you aren't supposed to get multiple unrelated emergencies, remember that you have to do a handflown single-engine approach. If you haven't turned off the autopilot by the time you're on a base leg, some examiners will simply fail it.

 

[de727ups]

"The instructor said the Missed Approach procedure is only for if the radios are out."

First time I've ever heard that. Not sure of the context. Perhaps he's saying that you should work out an alternate missed if you need to if you have radio's. Anyhow, my understanding is that you must do the published miss unless you are given an amended missed approach.

I know this doesn't answer your question but would you, just for me, ask him for a reference to prove "The instructor said the Missed Approach procedure is only for if the radios are out."

 

[AK737FO]

Say Again????

"The instructor said the Missed Approach procedure is only for if the radios are out."

What? So if my radio's are working, I can fly any ol-miss I want? Just make it up on the fly? That is a new one on me.
By the way, I would not recommend doing this at any Southeast Alaska airports - you will leave a large, greasy spot on a nearby mountain.

Sorry I can't be of any other help, but your jet speaks a different language than my jet. Two In - One Out for us is a slow, painful process due to flaps 15 hanging out. A Cat II miss is when we will usually see it. Everything moves at about the pace of a C172 as you accelerate, clean up, shut one down and then talk about it. Your jet seems to require a little more lip flappin. Just a different world - and remember all that technology was suppose to help you and make the job easier.

Good luck on your ride. My bet is that you will bring a tear to the eye of the examiner with an outstanding display of airmanship!