Return of the SIC-logging question, with a twist.

[capt_zman]

135 vs. 91. There is the major question in this whole equation. Avbug is absolutely right regarding SIC's, Op Specs and 135 and there really isn't any question about logging SIC. The big gotcha is 91 and the inability to log SIC under those regulations. It may just happen that you are flying 135 now and logging legitimate SIC, then you get the Nascar job in the right seat of a 200, and that's where you can't log SIC (assuming their ops are under 91).

Z-

 

[Snakum]

you get the Nascar job in the right seat of a 200, and that's where you can't log SIC

I think this is probably a bigger question in my mind. I've spoken to Pt91 King Air SICs (including one newly minted 45-year-old C90 FO, which gave me hope ) and they say the guys doing it before them logged it and moved up (regionals, frac, corp), but just about everyone I talked to who wasn't one of the aforementioned Part 91 C90 FOs says "Uh uh ... no way!".

I'm so confused.

Minh
(Not that I'll need to worry about this stuff for a couple years still ... but ya never know )

 

[avbug]

Confused? Why? It's cut and dried, and very clear, and you've already been given every shred of data you need to understand the subject.

What the king air Part 91 f/o's stipulated is irrelevant.

 

[Snakum]

Yes ... still confused, but I usually am anyway .

So, I understand that a Part 91 C90 SIC CANNOT log the time as SIC/Turbine/Blah blah because there is no Ops Spec? Correct?

Minh

 

[skyking1976]

Yes ... still confused, but I usually am anyway .

So, I understand that a Part 91 C90 SIC CANNOT log the time as SIC/Turbine/Blah blah because there is no Ops Spec? Correct?

Minh

Correct!

 

[Tripower455]

So, I understand that a Part 91 C90 SIC CANNOT log the time as SIC/Turbine/Blah blah because there is no Ops Spec? Correct?

Under Part 91, the regs are all you have guiding you. If the aircraft certificate specifies single pilot, then you can't log SIC time, any moreso than you can in a 172. I believe that some aircraft can be either way (one of the smaller Citations, the "Munson Burner", IIRC, can be flown single pilot), but that might be a restriction on the type rating of the Capt. I am sure someone else will know.

FWIW, I went through this early on in my career. The first job I got was as a VFR (less than 1200 hours TT) Chieftan Capt. for a small airline/charter company on Long Island. Some of the casino charter contracts required 2 pilots, so I would sit right seat on those flights. I could not log SIC time on those legs, since the Op Specs didn't require an SIC for that plane. We would swap seats, and I was able to log PIC time on the VFR legs. We both got paid anyway, so it wasn't that big a deal.

Good luck!

 

[Snakum]

About now I'm wondering how it would look if I logged C90 PIC (empty legs, flying sole manipulator) with only 500 hours TT (which was the TT of the one person I know who was hired as a C90FO part 91).

I'm think'n ... that won't look too spiffy.



Minh

 

[Kingairrick]

About now I'm wondering how it would look if I logged C90 PIC (empty legs, flying sole manipulator) with only 500 hours TT

I definately would. Here's why: How else are you going to build flight time for your ATP? I would log all the time you spend as sole manipulator as PIC as per the letter of the regs. In other words, log the dead legs in th 90 if you fly them. Some airlines might say that you were not "responsible" for the aircraft, or didn't "sign" for it, but the regs don't make that distinction, and neither should you. If you are lucky enough to be hired into the right seat, and you probably will be, you will be the next guy in line for the left seat. However, you have to meet minimum flight time standards for that seat, so log the time that is legal.

This is my opinion, but in this case, I'm basing it upon whom I would hire into my next left seat opening. It will definately be the right seat in that airplane. However, that person will have to meet minimums, like say, an ATP. For an ATP, or any rating, the regs for logging flight time are all that matters, not who "signed" for the airplane.

Bottom line: If you are rated in the airplane, and are sole manipulator, log the PIC.

 

[Timebuilder]

About now I'm wondering how it would look if I logged C90 PIC (empty legs, flying sole manipulator) with only 500 hours TT (which was the TT of the one person I know who was hired as a C90FO part 91).

I'm think'n ... that won't look too spiffy.



Minh

The above observation suggests to me that you may want to track your part 61 sole manipulator time in a separate column than the PIC time that you have as the "responsible" person flying the mighty C 172. Certainly, learn all that you can about the C90, all of the systems and limitations, so that when you have to answer for the logging of part 91/61 sole manipulator PIC time, you can back it up with the appropriate level of knowlege about the airplane. No ops specs or regs that allow for an SIC in the airplane? No SIC time, then. Make the most of the PIC opportunities that can legally be logged, and know the aircraft cold for your own good now and in the future.

 

[mike1mc]

About now I'm wondering how it would look if I logged C90 PIC (empty legs, flying sole manipulator) with only 500 hours TT (which was the TT of the one person I know who was hired as a C90FO part 91).

I'm think'n ... that won't look too spiffy.



Minh

I'm doing it with not much more than 400TT. I've been to SimuFlite, have the documentation, and fly 135 legs from the right seat. If I am the Pilot Flying its logged as PIC, if I'm not, then SIC. I usually fly all 91 legs as well. Just be sure you can prove you "know" the aircraft (i.e. systems, airspeeds, limitations, etc).