Retro V. Signing Bonus...(UPS/FDX)

[PurpleTail]

I started throwing around some numbers today and came up with some interesting figures for retro v. signing bonus. If any of these numbers are off please feel free to comment (I have thick skin). I know compensation is only ONE section of a couple dozen but this is definately some food for thought.


UPS TA from management is offering a signing bonus (instead of retro) of 60K for CPT, 40k for FO and 20k for SO. Sound good? Lets compare...

I got these figures from Airline Pilot Central...

75 hr Min Guar. X 13 pay periods= 975 hours

975 hrs yr X 2.5 yrs (since amendable date)= 2,437.5

10 yr CPT (now) $184 (TA) $216 = $32 diff. X 2,437.5= $78k (-18,000)

Top CPT (now) $190 (TA) $224 = $34 diff X 2,437.5= $82.9k (-22,900)

For Captains that is, on average, 33% less than already earned.

5 yr FO (now) $97 (TA) $117 = $20 diff X 2437.5= $48.8 (-8,800)

10 yr FO (now) $123 (TA) $145 = $22 diff X 2437.5= $53.7 (-13,700)

Top FO (now) $127 (TA) $151 = $24 diff X 2437.5= $58.5 (-18,500)



I applaud the UPS pilots for their resolve, we all know it hasn't been a very smooth or easy road the last couple of years. I am just curious of the pulse of the pilots around campus with this kind of money potentially left on the table. Again, this is one section of many and you have to look at the TA as a whole.

Personally, at FedEx, I only want to consider Retro and nothing less mainly because of the precedent it will set for the next contract. A signing bonus, IMHO, gets the company off cheap and again no incentive to negiotiate.

Just wondering what you guys/gals think?

Respectfully,

PT

 

[Huck]

If we're gonna go for retro, let's do like you did above and base it on BLG only.

Otherwise all these 100 hour a month wonders will get lots more than the rest of us.

 

[vtwo]

Also A Bonus is taxed at a hight rate with the IRS.

In my opinion the airline unions have let retro pay go back in the late 80's.

Now there is NO incentive for mngmt to negotiate in a timely manner. The longer they can get you to work for cheap the more money in their pockets.

They have people who do nothing but this type of negotiating for them. they where you down untill all you see is the future contract and are willing to say ok with out retro pay. They have learned to use the railway labor act in their favor.
Still good luck on retro pay I hope you guys demand it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Signing bonuses are sexier for management to pay pilots for a few reasons.

1. Bonus doesn't carry the same pro labor stigma as the words RETRO PAY.

2. Retro pay is payable to all employees who have been terminated, resigned or retired during the contract amendable period. A bonus is paid to current, active employees only.

There is no way to dodge the IRS on this.

If your company offers a few payment options (100%, 60% this year-40% next) look at the effect of the extra income on your tax bracket.

Try to load your 401K up to the max of $15,000 for 2006.

 

[brownie]

this POS is going down and shoved where it came from

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I started throwing around some numbers today and came up with some interesting figures for retro v. signing bonus. If any of these numbers are off please feel free to comment (I have thick skin). I know compensation is only ONE section of a couple dozen but this is definately some food for thought.


UPS TA from management is offering a signing bonus (instead of retro) of 60K for CPT, 40k for FO and 20k for SO. Sound good? Lets compare...

I got these figures from Airline Pilot Central...

75 hr Min Guar. X 13 pay periods= 975 hours

975 hrs yr X 2.5 yrs (since amendable date)= 2,437.5

10 yr CPT (now) $184 (TA) $216 = $32 diff. X 2,437.5= $78k (-18,000)

Top CPT (now) $190 (TA) $224 = $34 diff X 2,437.5= $82.9k (-22,900)

For Captains that is, on average, 33% less than already earned.

5 yr FO (now) $97 (TA) $117 = $20 diff X 2437.5= $48.8 (-8,800)

10 yr FO (now) $123 (TA) $145 = $22 diff X 2437.5= $53.7 (-13,700)

Top FO (now) $127 (TA) $151 = $24 diff X 2437.5= $58.5 (-18,500)



I applaud the UPS pilots for their resolve, we all know it hasn't been a very smooth or easy road the last couple of years. I am just curious of the pulse of the pilots around campus with this kind of money potentially left on the table. Again, this is one section of many and you have to look at the TA as a whole.

Personally, at FedEx, I only want to consider Retro and nothing less mainly because of the precedent it will set for the next contract. A signing bonus, IMHO, gets the company off cheap and again no incentive to negiotiate.

Just wondering what you guys/gals think?

Respectfully,

PT

Purple,

A reasonable pilot might figure it your way (i.e., 2004 pay rate vs TA and conclude that rate is applicable from 1/1/04 to present) but that is definitely NOT how our benevolent employer calculated it.

I don't have the figures before me, nor do I feel like calculating them here, but suffice to say a 3% raise was added in each year till present and retro/signing bonus calculated that way ... not an IMMEDIATE jump from 190-224 at amendable date.

Basically:

in 04 you get 190 +3%
in 05 you get another 3 % on top of above, etc...

Using their math a 12 yr capt signing bonus of 60k is about right on, junior FO's make out well.

FWIW.

BBB

 

[PurpleTail]

Purple,

A reasonable pilot might figure it your way (i.e., 2004 pay rate vs TA and conclude that rate is applicable from 1/1/04 to present) but that is definitely NOT how our benevolent employer calculated it.

I don't have the figures before me, nor do I feel like calculating them here, but suffice to say a 3% raise was added in each year till present and retro/signing bonus calculated that way ... not an IMMEDIATE jump from 190-224 at amendable date.

Basically:

in 04 you get 190 +3%
in 05 you get another 3 % on top of above, etc...

Using their math a 12 yr capt signing bonus of 60k is about right on, junior FO's make out well.

FWIW.

BBB

So where the published pay rates on the other thread "UPS reach TA" the beginning of contract pay rates or ending contract pay rates???

Thanks for the info BBB.

 

[AlbieF15]

I'm with you Huck...a flat rate Bonus or retro package would suit this 40-50 hour a month guy just fine. If they do it that way, however, they will be poking their most loyal team members right in the eyes. Judging by the TA for the training department, I'd say they have proven pretty adept at that!

 

[Big Beer Belly]

So where the published pay rates on the other thread "UPS reach TA" the beginning of contract pay rates or ending contract pay rates???

Thanks for the info BBB.

Sept 2006:

ALL AIRCRAFT TYPES (727 thru A380)

(all figures rounded)

Yr CAPT | FO | SO
15 $224 $151 $117
14 $224 $151 $117
13 $224 $151 $117
12 $224 $151 $117
11 $218 $147 $117
10 $216 $145 $117
09 $207 $139 $117
08 $199 $133 $113
07 $193 $128 $108
06 $187 $122 $100
05 $181 $117 $94
04 $174 $111 $86
03 $161 $102 $78
02 $155 $96 $72
01 $33 $33 $33

{{{5 yearly pay bumps in between, 3% each}}}

End of contract + 1 day if no agreement has been reached (January 1, 2012)-- 4% pay bump:

Yr CAPT | FO | SO
15 $262 $186 $137
14 $259 $184 $137
13 $257 $183 $137
12 $255 $182 $137
11 $252 $177 $137
10 $249 $172 $137
09 $247 $168 $137
07 $244 $161 $136
06 $243 $158 $134
05 $242 $155 $131
04 $241 $152 $128
03 $240 $149 $113
02 $240 $149 $96
01 $39 $39 $39

Guarantee: 81 hrs/mo (75 hours X 13 pay periods/12 calendar months)

[above courtesy of airline pilot central)

BBB

 

[fox3]

No RETRO Pay = Show Stopper!