Retirement age- would you know when to hang it up?

[waveflyer]

So Yip,
Notice you still haven't answered the original question? Seriously, why would it be appropriate to fly well into old age, when we are largely responsible for ourselves, and the loudest proponents of an age increase or abolition cannot answer truthfully that they will not be able to OBJECTIVELY evaluate their own permanent mental decline.
Hell yip, you don't acknowledge mental decline exists at all.

No, yip, I actually am not scared of higher objective standards- I'm saying we've all jumped through enough hoops to be where we are, and another expensive set of tests will neither be effective or administered well by the FAA. I have lobbied for years for higher academics- if I can figure out how to make a $million, I'm certainly not worried about what the FAA can throw at me. (how's that for a hobby, flamethrower above?)
Maybe it's a good idea, but it's a be careful what you wish for thing-
We have decades of stats that the vast majority of us are sharp and safe captains up to age 60- let that be the benchmark instead of giving more power to the FAA's medical department. What I'm saying is that I do believe we can safely fly for years after 60- (we agree) but we ought not be the one in command as we age bc we do need objective pilots evaluating our skills and mind as we get older. You can't do that for yourself, I'm sorry - we're all human and none of us are good at that.
It boggles the mind that you guys are asking for a more probing beauracracy - but then again, it doesn't- you have nothing to lose.

 

[Jar Jar]

I agree. No captains over 60. Ever. No cessna drivers over 60 either, they kill people too much.

 

[SSDD]

The honest answer is: I don't know. I used to say I'd be retired by 50, 55 tops. Well I'll be 56 this year and still enjoying the hell out of it.

I'ts all about balance. I've never hated the job like some guys seem to. I can spend time with the kids and grandkids, ride my bike, and sail my boat.

Will I still feel this way in 5 yrs? Eight yrs? 10? I don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[get2flyin]

The honest answer is: I don't know. I used to say I'd be retired by 50, 55 tops. Well I'll be 56 this year and still enjoying the hell out of it.

I'ts all about balance. I've never hated the job like some guys seem to. I can spend time with the kids and grandkids, ride my bike, and sail my boat.

Will I still feel this way in 5 yrs? Eight yrs? 10? I don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Flew with a CA a few years ago who just slipped under the wire and was able to stay until 65. Minutes after telling him I was 3 months away from furlough (and expecting my first child at the same time), he started telling me how great it was that he got to work until he was 65 because he'd have an extra nearly 500K that he and wifey were now going to use to buy that second dream house in the mountains. And, hey...he was picking up every bit of open time he could lay his hands on, working company max of 99 hours a month. He said he LOVED his job so why should he HAVE to "get fired for turning 60"? I told him, "Of course you love your job. Thanks to retirements, you've advanced your way up near the top of the heap and now you get summer vacations, the all the overnights you like, and the days off you want. THAT'S why you love your job...and it's all been thanks to advancement from retirement based attrition". Of course he disagreed. "Well", I told him, "enjoy it...I'll be trying to find a job in Asia or in the Middle East...you know...first kid on the way". He said, "I'm sure you'll be fine. Probably be back on the property in less than 5 years..oh, right over there by that mountain is where we want to build our second house." I hate that F-ing guy for a host of reasons, but that certainly is the biggest.

On the other side of the coin, I just flew with a 62.5 year old who's punching out this summer. Wife died 8 years ago. He wanted to bail at 60 but now says he finally has enough money. Sold his big house, moved into a 1400 sq/ft trailer until he can find a 28' motorhome to tow the Jeep he just bought. This guy has figured out you can spend your golden years fighting TSA and working for the man or hiking the Western United States...and he has priorities right. He can't wait...he lit up while he was telling me about it.

I don't know you from Adam so I'm not comparing to you to either one of these guys, SSDD. I'm glad you like your job. I've spent most of my career throwing gear and it's still been the best job in the planet. It just rubs me the wrong way when a guy who is senior (which you may or may not be) talks about how they want to stay because the job is so great now that everyone in front of them is gone. The salt in the wound is how THEY should be able to stay on that perch for a few extra years and anyone who thinks differently is "greedy" and just wants to "steal their seat".

 

[flyboyike]

It just rubs me the wrong way when a guy who is senior (which you may or may not be) talks about how they want to stay because the job is so great now that everyone in front of them is gone. The salt in the wound is how THEY should be able to stay on that perch for a few extra years and anyone who thinks differently is "greedy" and just wants to "steal their seat".

Amen.

 

[SSDD]

I gave you an honest answer. Please notice that I still have 5 yrs till I turn 60, and I haven't made my decision yet.

So where do you draw the line? At some point everyone in front of you will be gone and you'll have to make that decision yourself. Will you be ready to step away at 50, 55, 60, 62.5? Or will you say, way back then some greedy bastards robbed me of five years, so I have to stay?

Again, the answer is that regardless of what you tell yourself right now, you probably won't know until you get there. Maybe you'll still love the job, maybe not. Maybe you'll be financially set, maybe not. Maybe(and I hope not) a medical condition will come up, and the whole question will be moot.

 

[TMMT]

No they wont be able to determine their own fitness. Just look at the 135/91K/91 world.

Once the "retired" pilot is "pushed" from the flight deck, they just head on over to the 135 world. And guess what? They do fly til they die, because it's happening where I work.

Its two fold, one the economy keeps many flying well past the point most people want to retire.

Second is medical science, today has the ability to sustain you longer.

Mostly gone are the days of slow but noticeable declining health starting around age 55 to 60 and ending 5, 10 or 15 years later with death.

Today, those who get regular physicals and go to the doctor at the first sign of health related issues, tend to live longer and a more sustained life. Right up till the point their body just gives out, rapidly and completely.

25 years from now the age will be 85 to 90... 25 more years and those alive will all be discussing the merits of working at age 90 to 100.

Who knows what medical science will hold, perhaps the day they can stimulate brain cells to completely regenerate. Applied to huge leaps in artificial organs and bionics... a human will be able to live as long as they want to.

And this argument will be a bunch of Space Freighter pilots arguing over those flying well in to their 200's... keeping the younger one out of jobs.

 

[TMMT]

The honest answer is: I don't know. I used to say I'd be retired by 50, 55 tops. Well I'll be 56 this year and still enjoying the hell out of it.

I'ts all about balance. I've never hated the job like some guys seem to. I can spend time with the kids and grandkids, ride my bike, and sail my boat.

Will I still feel this way in 5 yrs? Eight yrs? 10? I don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I've never understood that either, perhaps its a 121 thing... but having only flown 135/91 I can't say.

Closest I've ever come to a 121 job was turning down a job offer from American in 1996 to go fly a Challenger on the west coast.

 

[pilotyip]

I agree. No captains over 60. Ever. No cessna drivers over 60 either, they kill people too much.

Right and no one under 60 ever kills anyone in an airplane

 

[waveflyer]

Yip, either you purposely repeat that logical fallacy, or you don't know you are committing it.

Again, you love flying- as do I, will you know when you are no longer safe to fly? Or will you a few close calls before you accept it?

 

[Dan Roman]

Yip, either you purposely repeat that logical fallacy, or you don't know you are committing it.

Again, you love flying- as do I, will you know when you are no longer safe to fly? Or will you a few close calls before you accept it?

Well wave you said your 27 on here. Simple fact is, and no offense intended, but Yip is much more qualified to make a judgement about flying skills as you age. He's been there, you haven't!

 

[waveflyer]

27??

Your grammar's as good as a pilot- are you saying my age is 27?

Good one-

 

[Leroy Smith]

A man's got to know his limitations.

Some will, some wont.
Old, or sick or tired or frazzled or skills just not up to the task at hand.
Sometimes the line is very fine, and everyone will choose wrong sometimes. No age limit, regulation or test will ever be a proper replacement for self awareness and common-sense, but they are imperfect necessities for those who lack either....

 

[pilotyip]

Yip, either you purposely repeat that logical fallacy, or you don't know you are committing it.

Again, you love flying- as do I, will you know when you are no longer safe to fly? Or will you a few close calls before you accept it?

You mean like the close calls I had in my 20's, improper aileron roll resulting in a split "S" and losing 3,500' when I started at 5,000', improper aborted take-off by the PPC resulting in the airplane turning into a ball of fire when the wing broke, getting lost in the North Atlantic when my Navigator lost it, the windshere at Malta where I was looking up at the runway on the cliff above me (in 1970 we had not yet discovered the wonders o0f windshere, or when I stepped out the cockpit to use the head and returned to the cockpit to find my F/O in a 45 degree bank going through 1,000' at 3,000'/min with two engines in the bag. Those kind of close calls. Maybe because I experienced these in my 20's I will stay away from them in my 60's and 70's

Well wave you said your 27 on here. Simple fact is, and no offense intended, but Yip is much more qualified to make a judgement about flying skills as you age. He's been there, you haven't!

Thanks Dan, you notice how a lib always makes it personal?

 

[flyboyike]

Thanks Dan, you notice how a lib always makes it personal?

Well, I'm not a lib, but the gummers sticking around has affected me personally. I personally lost income and career advancement. Now, do I care if you, yip, personally, live, breathe, fly or die? No, not one bit. But this hosejob has affected me very personally, thus I take it personally.