Results of ARC rewrite for Flight and Duty (135)

[Way2Broke]

Thanks for answering my questions Moose and YIP. Very helpful. You only need the extended rest if you fly more than 10 hours in any 14 hour duty day, not if you fly more than 10 hours in any given 24. Got it. I had a bit different scenario going in my head in which the pilots flew more in the 14 hour period than the on you described. Either way we are on the same page.

 

[Seadogrun]

Way2 you are correct rest can not be violated. Late pax is an unexpected delay, late freight, TAC delays, weather etc are all unexpected delay and you can exceed 14 hours of duty. If you are tired you call fatigue. You can exceed 10 hrs of flight time in a 24 hours period provided there is 10 ten hour rest period during the 24 hours and all flight time in excess of 10 hours follows the 10 hour rest period.

My understanding was that a late pax/cargo does not qualify as unexpected delay. If the pax shows up late and causes you not to be able to complete the trip within your legal duty day, then the trip doesn't go. I always thouhgt that unexpected delay was for weather already airborne that causes you to extend your duty day, then requires the longer rest. Once again I haven't flown 135 in a couple of years so it's a little foggy to me.

 

[hammer2]

It is still unknown how the on-demand charter operations are going to comply, but my boss is on one of the boards trying to figure it out. He said the FAA wanted it done last year and if they don't do something soon they are going to start enforcing the rest requirement of 10 hours prior to your scheduled trip (which would mean alot of violations!). We are trying to figure out how to do it without hiring more pilots to cover pop-ups or turning down late evening trips. One thing we are toying with is going to a hard 8-6 off time and then only being able to fly until 8-10 pm should we get a late afternoon trip.

We are a small company that can't really afford to hire enough pilots to make it work effectively (24-7 on call) but we need to be able to serve our clients who have short term needs so we can continue to provide a valuable service. I'm all in the interest of safety and good rest requirements for crewmembers but I hope there is a middle ground somewhere.

If your companies come up with some good alternatives to this issue, please post them so we all can brainstorm!

I'm sorry your company can't afford more pilots. I hope people like your boss don't get their grubby little hands on these new rest rule! I'm tired of being tired. A 14 hr day followed by just ten hrs of rest.... or 10 hrs rest in a 24 hrs period... however you want to look at it is crazy. If companies can't afford to stay in business, because a pilot needing to rest, that company going out of business is a good thing. The alternitive ,or middle ground is MAX TO NEVER EXCEED, ALL OPS OF THAT CREW MEMBER STOPs At 12 HRS OF DUTY!!!!! Duty also defined as on call. We may get some legatimate operators.

 

[pilotyip]

Lets see here how we will handle 135 10-hr rest followed by duty. Since I can only 14 hours, and you are on duty, I want you in the bldg. to able to capture any trip that comes up. So I have to have pilots on a rotating schedule. I want you in here at 0800, no trips by noon, put you back in rest, at 2200 you come back in get a trip at 0300, come back at 1100 the next day. Back in to rest have you come back 2200 again, no trip send you back into rest at 0200, at 1200, I tell you to go into another 10 hours rest, and report into the building at 2200, lucky night trip comes in right away, YIP-MMTO-YIP get back at noon. Are you any less tired than under the present system?

 

[CelticCitation]

I agree with YIPster. Change the rules, change the way they get abused.

The best way to keep in duty is to have enough flying that "on call" is not an issue. Figure that out, and you can write your own checks. If you can't be happy with what one crew can do most days, you probably won't be able to survive in business anyway. Everyone points out that crew costs are a small percentage of the total costs, but fact of the matter is we operate in a high capital, small margin business. If your cost structure necesitates an additional full time crew to do what can be done in a day, your costs are probably too tight to ever get beyond break even anyway. An airplane that has to fly more than a 135 duty day to make money is a liability.

 

[hammer2]

12 on 12 off........

 

[Boilermaker]

I'm sorry your company can't afford more pilots. I hope people like your boss don't get their grubby little hands on these new rest rule! I'm tired of being tired. A 14 hr day followed by just ten hrs of rest.... or 10 hrs rest in a 24 hrs period... however you want to look at it is crazy. If companies can't afford to stay in business, because a pilot needing to rest, that company going out of business is a good thing. The alternitive ,or middle ground is MAX TO NEVER EXCEED, ALL OPS OF THAT CREW MEMBER STOPs At 12 HRS OF DUTY!!!!! Duty also defined as on call. We may get some legatimate operators.

In all honesty, my boss is a great guy. He is trying to figure out the best way to keep us safe and to still be able to provide last minute service to people that need it. What we may end up doing is having to stay overnight instead of departing for home at 2200-2300 hrs for a 2 hr flight home. I am priveleged to work for a guy that doesn't work his guys into the ground but still knows how to have a company that can stay in business for 30 years.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

My understanding was that a late pax/cargo does not qualify as unexpected delay. If the pax shows up late and causes you not to be able to complete the trip within your legal duty day, then the trip doesn't go. I always thouhgt that unexpected delay was for weather already airborne that causes you to extend your duty day, then requires the longer rest. Once again I haven't flown 135 in a couple of years so it's a little foggy to me.

THe above is one reason why -135 needs to be re-written. It is grey and vague as to what is allowed to be a "delay". If it was black and white, everybody would know what the rules were, and mgmt/fsdos wouldn't be allowed to bend the rules to fit what they wanted.

cliff
YIP

 

[rice]

Hi!



THe above is one reason why -135 needs to be re-written. It is grey and vague as to what is allowed to be a "delay". If it was black and white, everybody would know what the rules were, and mgmt/fsdos wouldn't be allowed to bend the rules to fit what they wanted.

cliff
YIP

AMEN!!!!!!!

 

[pilotyip]

Cliff we would just go to 121 and call it a duty break then we can extend the day to 24 hours and if 8 hours flight time is not exceeded, you would not need any rest. You would be ready for 16 hours of duty and 8 hours of flynig the next day.