Respected company “Rolls Learjet”

[airjake]

This incident is not a reflection of the professionalism or standards of the people I fly with nightly or of our training department. Thank you for the kind words in the original post but I doubt you will get any insider info here.

 

[ableone]

Flying below ref on approach is dangerous in a lear (depending on the wing installed of course), rolling one... I am pretty straight arrowed but as long as the guy was not trying a max rate roll with the tip tanks full it shouldn't be a problem.

Then again I know guys who have looped the lear and though I would not want to be onboard it has been done successfully.

Apparently even idiots can successfully roll a lear. I had a line check down to Mexico with the owner of the freight disaster I worked for and he flew back. He kept it on the deck after TO and did a nice roll below 500agl. (Before the web board erupts with the chorus of "Why didn't you stop him." comments let me point out, to those who have not flown one, that if someone decides to do a high rate roll on a lear, unanounced, you won't realize it until you are inverted, that you are in an airshow.) Though this guy had nearly lost a lear earlier because he decided that jets could be slipped, and later flew one through a tree line, I had no major qualms about his roll.

If I had to ride on one of two lears and one guy wanted to roll it and the other wanted to fly formation I would ride on the roller.

 

[FO 4 Life]

I bet Hoover could roll that thing and not spill a drop.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

Was there something new that happened or is still talk from the UCA incident a few years ago?

 

[CherryBomb]

Bobby Younkin did quite an aerobatic routine in a Lear...

 

[Windsor]

Now, who wants to go shoot an ILS down to mins with a p.o.s. ADI/HSI/etc.

Happens every day. Welcome to freight dawgin.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

I don't know why people have this idea that rolling an airplane is easy or safe to do in A/C not designed for aerobatics.

I don't know either. Maybe from watching that video of Bob Hoover on You-Tube, rolling an airplane "not designed for aerobatics" while pouring a glass of iced tea?

Questions of legality and professional discipline aside, rolling most airplanes isn't that big of a deal, if it's done right. At least it's not as far as the airplane is concerned. Properly executed, it needn't subject the airframe to more than 1.5-2.0 G's. What effect it may have on the instruments is another matter, although it seems to me that an HSI that could be damaged by excessive roll or pitch inputs has no place on anything other than a general aviation airplane anyway.

One of the biggest problems I see with rolling an airplane like a Lear is that not all of us have the skills of a Bob Hoover or Bobby Younkin. If you don't know what you're doing, it easy to dish out of a roll and exceed airspeed or "G" limitations. The danger in that of course is that it's impossible to know what you don't know until you've tried it.

Another problem is that in a 2-pilot airplane (or a single-pilot airplane in a three-ship formation), you're leaving witnesses to your misdeed. Stuff like that eventually gets around, and can have career-altering consequences.

I've rolled a few airplanes in my time, including several that clearly weren't intended to be rolled, and I'm still here to tell about it. But if I had a guy working for me that did the same thing, I'd fire his a$$ in a heartbeat, if for no other reason than to discourage other guys from trying it.

 

[400A]

I bet Hoover could roll that thing and not spill a drop.

I had a guy roll me in a Starship with half full cup of coffee by his left knee and it never moved, not even a drop. Also as mentioned before, if you did not know it was coming, by the time you realize what is going on, it is to late to stop it.

 

[cruxx@9]

… I’d love to hear some of your stories of fun you have had in a company airplane. Even war stories that made you have to check your seat when you got on the ground are welcome. ….

Dude...are you high?

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

...I had a line check down to Mexico with the owner of the freight disaster I worked for and he flew back. He kept it on the deck after TO and did a nice roll below 500agl.

That's the stupidest #$%&*! thing I ever heard of. All it takes is one goosey guy with access to the flight controls to start trying to "undo" his roll as he goes over the top, and the next thing you know, you're toast. No...croutons...many, many little pieces of toast.

Congratulations...you obviously survived working for this Bozo. That alone should qualify you for some sort of "Civilian Battle Ribbon" or something.

If I had to ride on one of two lears and one guy wanted to roll it and the other wanted to fly formation I would ride on the roller.

I'd tell both of 'em to go pound sand, and take the bus home. All jobs, especially those at the end of aviation at which this stuff seems to be tolerated, are temporary. Crashes (and violations) are forever. When dealing with guys like you've described, I'd much rather read about their misdeeds than be a party to them.