Resigning from ALPA

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The best thing to do is to start up your own in-house union. We have one and I wouldn't trade it in for anything. My union only deals with one airline and therefore is able to devote 100% of it's time and effort with one company with only our interests involved. I feel my union dues are well spent.

How much does your union contribute to industry safety? ALPA's saferty and engineering dept is recognized and respected Worldwide! The AMR and SWAPA pilots buy the services of ALPA's economic and financial analysis dept. Does your union use ALPA contracts to negotiate with your company? (who doesn't, but I'm sure ALPA uses yours as well) Do your union leaders have the audience of the National politicians, where the perameters of our careers are controlled? I'm not saying your in house union is bad, but neither is ALPA, and ALPA contributes worlwide to the aviation industry.

It's great that this education is coming out.... here is more......

Shortly after Dave Behncke formed ALPA he came to the realization that his new union would go nowhere, and accomplish nothing, if he did not get the union involved in national politics. That tenet is even more true in today's world. There is nothing we do as pilots or as a union that is not in some way controlled, regulated or mandated by the federal government. In a globalized inter-dependant world, ALPA has a great many problems that cannot be resolved without the cooperation and commitment of others, and a great many interests that require the help of others to maximize our potential.



Over the years ALPA has accepted that reality, and developed a very effective Government Affairs Department. With full-time staff and facilities in Washington, DC and in Ottawa, QC this department has matured into one of the most productive departments in ALPA in terms of public accomplishments.



As a recognition of the need to become intimately involved in the political arena, the Association formed ALPA-PAC.ALPA-PAC has enabled our union to be a real player in the legislative arena in Washington. We must recognize that participation in the PAC is more important now than ever before. What we have learned as a union is that we must be proactive in our efforts with governments and this is precisely what the PAC allows us to accomplish.

This is why ALPA doesn't do SOS!!! Honey not vinegar!

With a second-term President, the chances of passing legislation detrimental to collective bargaining are greatly enhanced. Below are just a few examples of the damage that might be inflicted in this event.



The McCain-Lott “Baseball-Style Arbitration Bill” is a good starting point. This bill, had it been enacted, would have gutted the provisions of the Railway Labor Act that give labor a fighting chance to obtain a true, collectively bargained agreement. The rules in this legislation were heavily tilted in management's favor even during the bargaining phase, and the only negotiating tactic management needed under the provisions the bill contained was the patience to wait for the arbitrator to make a ruling within the narrow confines outlined by the proposed legislation. This bill was defeated through the efforts of labor, we have not seen the last of this effort or others like it, especially if there is a Republican victory in November.



Another issue on the horizon is appointments to several political positions that will directly affect pilots. Few, if any, political appointments are as important to ALPA as the Secretary of Transportation. This key position determines how well ALPA can effect timely solutions to problems, and our ability to effectively and efficiently interface with the key government agency that controls our jobs as pilots. Enforcement of the Whitlow Letter is one positive example of this premise. Along those lines, we have been waiting for years for the FAA Administrator's office to propose another major regulation—new rules on flight and duty time. We must ask, what kind of rules can we expect from a new Secretary and Administrator who are not a friends of ALPA, and with the Administrator appointed by the current administration?



There are other transportation-related appointments and regulations that are certain to arise in the next few years. It must also be emphasized that the members of the National Mediation Board, the National Transportation Safety Board, and the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation are all appointed by the President. Cabotage, additional security taxes, pension reform, the Civil Reserve Aircraft Fleet (CRAF) and foreign ownership, and true collective bargaining rights—our full rights, including the right to strike—to name only a few, are at stake this in this election. These are matters of substantial concern for our members.

An issue previously discussed in this report was the financial condition of the industry. Dovetailing with this discussion it is appropriate to point out how industry finances and project funding are affected by the political system. A look at the current state of affairs with the U.S. government's budget crisis underscores this point. For example, at the outset of this crisis Congress "did the right thing" in appropriating grants and loan guarantees to the industry via the Air Transportation Safety and System Stabilization Act. However, this much-needed loan guarantee provision was held hostage by making the provisions to obtain a loan guarantee so onerous as to make them unavailable. Only $1.56 billion out of the $10 billion, or less than 16% of Congress’ intent was executed by the Bush administration. Furthermore, the President is seeking an additional $435 million security taxes to be added to airline tickets. Politics, taxes and fees, and the financial health of the industry are completely intertwined.

As was previously mentioned in this report, the airline industry relies on the air traffic infrastructure to operate both safely and profitably. Everything involving federal budgets is totally political. No industry has more at stake financially that rests entirely on political decisions. No profession has more at stake than airline pilots.



2003 ALPA-PAC PARTICIPATION BY AIRLINE





Delta 31%

United 31

Astar 27

Northwest 27

Alaska 20

Aloha 20

ALPA 18

FedEx 18

Mesa Air Group 16

Hawaiian 14

Continental/Continental Express 11

US Airways 10

Mesaba 9

ATA 8

Midwest 8

Aloha Island Air 6

Atlantic Coast 5

Spirit 5

Allegheny 4

American Eagle 3

American West 3

Pinnacle 3

Polar Air Cargo 3

Skyway 3

Atlantic Southeast 2

Atlas Air 2

Champion 2

Comair 2

PSA 2

Ryan 2

Air Wisconsin 1

Piedmont 1

Trans States 1



The following airlines had one contribution: Gemini, Midway, and Ross



Guys, ALPA PAC and its effectiveness is greatly influenced from above. If you can't stand the fact that you should give more money in addition to your dues, then you've been missing a major piece of the puzzle for a long time. If you want to effect your career you've got to play on CapHill.....

Finally, recognizing the MESA guys and thier PAC contributions.... They got it right....

Good Luck....

 

[~~~^~~~]

I am certainly understand the writer's resignation letter. ALPA is full of empty political rhetoric about "unity," while at the same time promoting alter ego airline entities which are created for the express purpose of undermining scope and forcing ALPA members to compete against other ALPA members in the race for the bottom.

The votes to change ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy, the removal of "operational integration" and the lack of any national leadership have turned this union into disenfranchised mobs engaged in looting eachother after the tragedy of September 11th. ALPA National has done nothing to stop the trend. In fact they have simply tried to align themselves with who they percieve to be the most powerful mob, encouraging the predatory behavior.

Brand scope is simply the same old way of doing business since the mid nineties. Non-preferred ALPA members are still excluded from the bargaining table and left with no enforceable scope. ALPA National is quick to endorse any deals that take flying away from these "non-preferred" pilots.

But, the failed policy has the grass roots effect of undermining the entire industry. There is a reason why the frustrated US Air pilot is making as much a $10 an hour less to fly an E170 than a 5 year ASA RJ Captain - it is because ALPA national endorsed the deal.

I am not yet to the point of advocating decertification of ALPA, but if the RJDC is not successful in saving this union, then we must decertify it and go our own way.

~~~^~~~

 

[Dodge]

It is nice to see that Mesa and Mesaba contibuted as much or more than some of the "large jet operators" out there. Too bad they didn't get much for their money with their contracts.

Look guys and girls, ALPA is a business. They need dues. Why do you think that all the former scabs were welcomed back into ALPA's good graces? They want their money, of course. If some of the pilots don't like the direction that ALPA is taking their pay, retirement, profession, etc....try to get into the ALPA business. The ALPA big wigs seem to make out just fine, even though the pilots of the airlines that they represent are watching everything being striped from them. Being a pilot is not the way to make the best living in the airlines.

 

[~~~^~~~]

"My MEC has gone so far as to make an Eastern scab the head of one of the committees. It was at that point that I realized what ALPA has become."

Apparently you missed the pictures of Duane Woerth welcoming the Continental Scabs ( who broke ALPA and supported Lorenzo on the CAL property ) with cake and party favors. Those scabs, in every sense of the word, were welcomed back into ALPA without one cent of back dues.

The former Eastern Scab was the subject of a good portion of an LEC meeting in ATL. On a local level the MEC and LEC are always in need of good volunteers. The local volunteers are really the unsung heros of ALPA who are there when you need them and give up their precious days off to assist line pilots when the chips are down.

People learn from their mistakes & the better man goes on to make amends. ALPA can not claim the moral high ground on this issue anymore when Duane Woerth is having cake and ice cream with CAL scabs. I hold the President of our Union to a higher standard than a volunteer committee chair.

~~~^~~~

 

[~~~^~~~]

It is nice to see that Mesa and Mesaba contibuted as much or more than some of the "large jet operators" out there. Too bad they didn't get much for their money with their contracts.

Look guys and girls, ALPA is a business. They need dues. Why do you think that all the former scabs were welcomed back into ALPA's good graces?

Yes, but there is a bigger reason you overlooked... V O T E S.

Those CAL scabs will now vote against the members in good standing at ASA, Comair, Mesa, Mesaba and the others like us who are "small jet lift providers" with no code and no brand.

In the old ALPA, you had to merge with another carrier before your name got painted on the side of their airplane. In the new ALPA you just lock them out of the negotiating table and take what you want from their operation.

ALPA apartied figures by diluting the votes of the non preferred members they can keep them in the fields and keep the masters in the big house.

~~~^~~~

 

[sleepy]

It all depends if the airline you work for has an "Agency Shop" clause in the contract. If there is Agency Shop and you quit, you have to pay a service fee that is about equal to the dues. If you do not pay up, ALPA will notify the company, and they will be required to fire you. It is my understanding right to work laws in individual States do not protect you from being fired. If there is no such clause in your airline contract, you can quit and not pay any sort of service fee. At FedEx this is the case.

You are correct. Also, pilots that were employed by the airline prior to the union do not have to join or pay.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The resolutions to allow scabs back into ALPA goes something like this....

Members in good standing of current in house unions will be accepted into ALPA...

We all do this in the many decsions we make daily. Heck, when you buy a car, you accept some features you don't like cause you look at the total package....

I wouldn't say ALPA wants scab dues money, but rather the dues money of all the non scabs which is much much more.... You're looking at it from the other side....

In order to get an in house union like CAL or FedEx Pilots Association (back) into ALPA they take the whole group for better or worse. Not saying it is right or wrong.... just saying it is politics.....

I'm not advocating scabs..... just offering a view point.....

 

[TonyC]

Also, pilots that were employed by the airline prior to the union do not have to join or pay.

Also FALSE.

 

[FoxHunter]

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/Documents/ALPA%20Officer%20Compensation.htm

Some of the highlights of DWs package.

$412,728 pay per year

Monthly Allowances: Housing $4,500, Meals $1,500, Travel and Incidental $1,500
New Lincoln LS every two years, Taxes, Tags, Insurance, Maintenance are paid by ALPA. Fuel is also paid for if used on ALPA business.

Retirement for 8 years as President $149,000+. Plus he keeps his airline pension.

How is this justified? The only reason I became aware is that someone posted the link on the ALPA Web board. Seems to me that the National leadership has charted a course of total failure, and it is just a matter of time that ALPA will be history. Talking to fellow FedEx pilots I know that most voted to merge FPA with ALPA because of their high expectations. The good news FedEx pilots will soon be the highest paid ALPA pilots, the bad news is that this may result in a 10% pay cut when we sign the next contract.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/Documents/ALPA%20Officer%20Compensation.htm

Some of the highlights of DWs package.

$412,728 pay per year

Monthly Allowances: Housing $4,500, Meals $1,500, Travel and Incidental $1,500
New Lincoln LS every two years, Taxes, Tags, Insurance, Maintenance are paid by ALPA. Fuel is also paid for if used on ALPA business.

Retirement for 8 years as President $149,000+. Plus he keeps his airline pension.

How is this justified? The only reason I became aware is that someone posted the link on the ALPA Web board. Seems to me that the National leadership has charted a course of total failure, and it is just a matter of time that ALPA will be history. Talking to fellow FedEx pilots I know that most voted to merge FPA with ALPA because of their high expectations. The good news FedEx pilots will soon be the highest paid ALPA pilots, the bad news is that this may result in a 10% pay cut when we sign the next contract.

How is this justified? Hmmm gee I don't know, maybe the ALPA delgates that YOU elected, voted for it. After all, it is a democratic document. A resolution, if I may.

So, if ALPA officers' pay is voted in maybe it could be voted out. Can ya do it! can ya organize a drive to change the compensation. Do you know where to start? (hint, it's called a LEC meeting, where traditionally, only 15% of you show up. Also, if a majority of the 15% show up with radical agenda they can speak for your entire pilot group. Imagine 150 pilots speaking for 1000!)

Also, I find it interesting that this only becomes an issue when someone rallies the message board crews. I mean where was the opposition when it was enacted? Oh yeah, that was in 2002, when everyone still had hopes an dream of making a similiar salary at UAL and DAL. What timing. UAL MEC approves a chilling TA and all of sudden the Nat'l officers salaries are inapproriate.

I'm not defending the salaries, but then again, I don't think the National Officers have 15+ days off a month like a UAL/DAL/NWA widebody Capt. And when something happens on the weekends after they gave five 10 h days, they go. In addition, while every ALPA pilot can fly a jet, not every ALPA pilot can address Congress and Cabinet memebers skillfully and effectively.

You have some valid points but again, get educated and quit reacting.....

 

[Clyde]

How much does your union contribute to industry safety? ALPA's saferty and engineering dept is recognized and respected Worldwide! The AMR and SWAPA pilots buy the services of ALPA's economic and financial analysis dept. Does your union use ALPA contracts to negotiate with your company? (who doesn't, but I'm sure ALPA uses yours as well) Do your union leaders have the audience of the National politicians, where the perameters of our careers are controlled? I'm not saying your in house union is bad, but neither is ALPA, and ALPA contributes worlwide to the aviation industry.

I'm not sure where you were going with this, because my post dealt with me being represented by a particular union. I never mentioned anything about industry contributions.

But, since you brought it up, my union has contributed and continues to contribute more to aviation safety than most realize. Now given, we are not as big as ALPA, so we are not going to be recognized in the same capacity.

I'm not exactly sure what our negotiators are using with the company, they are keeping a tight lid on things and informing us when the time is right. However, I'll say this much: we do look at what pilots at other carriers are making. We also look at our own company's financial well being and use that pretty heavily when working out a contract.

"Do your union leaders have the audience of the National politicians, where the perameters of our careers are controlled?"

We have an audience of the right people that we need to be in contact with. National politicians aren't exactly the best people either. When push comes to shove, they are going to side with management, not labor.

ALPA isn't a bad union, it's one that I would not want to be a part of. I like the fact that I pay dues to a union that deals only with my airline. 100% of my union's attention goes to one company and one pilot group. They are looking out for the interests of our pilot group only.

As far as what services we buy from ALPA, I don't know if we do. But I will say this: since I've been here (and I've been involved at the union offices too), I have never heard anybody mention even one time of any services purchased from ALPA.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Did you get Jame's permission to repost?

I should probably point out that I am not James, but I agree with everything he says in this letter. This is a re-post from another source. Radical solutions for radical times..........

I hope you obtained his permission to post his letter. I am sure he stands behind his words, but may not appreciate you putting it in a public forum without permission.

Jeff

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

"Do your union leaders have the audience of the National politicians, where the perameters of our careers are controlled?"

We have an audience of the right people that we need to be in contact with. National politicians aren't exactly the best people either. When push comes to shove, they are going to side with management, not labor.

Well that is my point. The fact is all of the perameters that effect our career are handled on CapHill. National politicians may not be the BEST people, but they are the ones and only who will craft the legislation and vote on it. (I do want to ask, you say you have an audience of the right people, who are they?) In addition you are resigned to give up before you even get started. Politicians listen to labor....they are voting consituents... And alot of them are Repubs!!

RLA=federal=CapHill

Does your union have a PAC office and professional lobbyist to go and talk to these politicans? If not, then ALPA (and the APA) is speaking for you whether you like it or not. In fact, the United pilots understand this well enough to get their own in house PAC! But don't get mad at the UAL pilots for knowing how the legislative system works and using it!

Cabatoge, FFDO, security, off line jumpseat and AGE 60 just to name a few are being decided on Cap Hill. Where is your say on these issues? You don't have one. And that may be fine with you. And that is ok too.

In an idealistic world, all airline pilots would give to ALPA-PAC or APA PAC or, they would create the independent Airline Pilots PAC (IAP-PAC) or whatever it may be.

AOPA understands this as well. Their first few magazine pages are loaded with "what AOPA is doing on CapHill" They have a PAC and it is effective.

Bottom line... money talks, something else walks.... If you are not involved on CapHill in some form you are just a spectator in your airline career.....

 

[Clyde]

Well that is my point. The fact is all of the perameters that effect our career are handled on CapHill. National politicians may not be the BEST people, but they are the ones and only who will craft the legislation and vote on it. (I do want to ask, you say you have an audience of the right people, who are they?) In addition you are resigned to give up before you even get started. Politicians listen to labor....they are voting consituents... And alot of them are Repubs!!

RLA=federal=CapHill

Does your union have a PAC office and professional lobbyist to go and talk to these politicans? If not, then ALPA (and the APA) is speaking for you whether you like it or not. In fact, the United pilots understand this well enough to get their own in house PAC! But don't get mad at the UAL pilots for knowing how the legislative system works and using it!

Cabatoge, FFDO, security, off line jumpseat and AGE 60 just to name a few are being decided on Cap Hill. Where is your say on these issues? You don't have one. And that may be fine with you. And that is ok too.

In an idealistic world, all airline pilots would give to ALPA-PAC or APA PAC or, they would create the independent Airline Pilots PAC (IAP-PAC) or whatever it may be.

AOPA understands this as well. Their first few magazine pages are loaded with "what AOPA is doing on CapHill" They have a PAC and it is effective.

Bottom line... money talks, something else walks.... If you are not involved on CapHill in some form you are just a spectator in your airline career.....

"(I do want to ask, you say you have an audience of the right people, who are they?)"

Not too long ago, the company issued a press release announcing, among other things, record profits and no labor issues. They said the talks with the pilots union was a non-issue, when in reality they were dragging their feet.

The union was able to get in touch with some big Wall Street analysts. They interviewed us and got the correct story of how our contract negotiations were going. Investors on Wall Street heard and listened as did the company, as it grabbed their attention in a very big way, because a lot of people started to realize that the negotiations were far from a non-event. Shortly after that, the negotiations started showing some progress on the side of the company.

The right people sometimes are not necessarily the one's in DC, but the ones on Wall Street. When you have the ability to somehow influence the stock price, a lot of deaf ears suddenly start hearing again.

"Politicians listen to labor....they are voting consituents... And alot of them are Repubs!!

RLA=federal=CapHill"

I agree, that it is good to have at least some connections in DC, and we do have some there. But, we also have our eggs spread out evenly among the baskets too.

"Cabatoge, FFDO, security, off line jumpseat and AGE 60 just to name a few are being decided on Cap Hill. Where is your say on these issues? You don't have one. And that may be fine with you. And that is ok too."

Actually, we do have a say. Our union has contacts and we are heavily involved with CAPA. We are not sitting by the wayside letting everyone else speak for us.

"In fact, the United pilots understand this well enough to get their own in house PAC! But don't get mad at the UAL pilots for knowing how the legislative system works and using it!"

This next comment may stir the pot a little, but I will speak anyway. First, I don't want to be involved in the same union that UAL is involved with. One reason is pensions. ALPA cannot do anything to even salvage a little bit for the UAL pilots. According to our latest union update, us and the company are close to an agreement on our pensions, and it is for the better, not worse. If UAL pilots know the legislative system so well, how come they are getting screwed by the airline AND the federal government on their pensions?

And with regards to off-line jumpseats, our union has been very heavily involved with the CASS program and very proactive in getting it in working order.

"Bottom line... money talks, something else walks.... If you are not involved on CapHill in some form you are just a spectator in your airline career....."

I agree, and that is why we have a presence there. ALPA is there too, but I wouldn't say they are speaking for us, they are speaking WITH us. We are far from being spectators.

 

[RJP]

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/Documents/ALPA%20Officer%20Compensation.htm

Some of the highlights of DWs package.

$412,728 pay per year

Monthly Allowances: Housing $4,500, Meals $1,500, Travel and Incidental $1,500
New Lincoln LS every two years, Taxes, Tags, Insurance, Maintenance are paid by ALPA. Fuel is also paid for if used on ALPA business.

Retirement for 8 years as President $149,000+. Plus he keeps his airline pension.

Wow, I feel even worse now.

His "meals" allowance is as much or more than I TAKE HOME on any given month.

And that's BEFORE union dues.

 

[FoxHunter]

I mean where was the opposition when it was enacted? Oh yeah, that was in 2002, when everyone still had hopes an dream of making a similiar salary at UAL and DAL. What timing. UAL MEC approves a chilling TA and all of sudden the Nat'l officers salaries are inapproriate.

.

Where was the opposition when it was enacted? Who knew? Did I not read about the terms in any MEC/LEC publication/notice? NO! The details were never released to the membership, why? I believe it is because members would be outraged. Just the pension alone is over the top. What else don't we know about? Is this just the tip of the iceberg? I think every single ALPA member should be emailed a copy of this document? Do you think the national leadership will agree? Not a chance.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Rez O. Lewshun;


Are you a DC9 " mainline RJ " Capt for NW?

PHXFLYR

 

[FoxHunter]

Wow, I feel even worse now.

His "meals" allowance is as much or more than I TAKE HOME on any given month.

And that's BEFORE union dues.

Hmm, I wonder if DW has to pay dues? Whaddya think?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Where was the opposition when it was enacted? Who knew? Did I not read about the terms in any MEC/LEC publication/notice? NO! The details were never released to the membership, why? I believe it is because members would be outraged. Just the pension alone is over the top. What else don't we know about? Is this just the tip of the iceberg? I think every single ALPA member should be emailed a copy of this document? Do you think the national leadership will agree? Not a chance.

The agenda of the association is available for its members. Always has been. When our LEC officers told the membership they were going to the ALPA BOD...they couldn't even get everyone to stop talking to be heard...

Look, I am not saying the National salaries are right or wrong, but if it really mattered you guys wouldn't wait for the message boards to tell you about it, then claim you were kept in the dark until now! C'mon, you're pilots, take some repsonsibility.....

The industry is imploding on the pilots and the big issue is union salaries?? WTFO? After you fix them, then what? What is next?

Get involved... look in the mirror.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

"(I do want to ask, you say you have an audience of the right people, who are they?)"

Not too long ago, the company issued a press release announcing, among other things, record profits and no labor issues. They said the talks with the pilots union was a non-issue, when in reality they were dragging their feet.

The union was able to get in touch with some big Wall Street analysts. They interviewed us and got the correct story of how our contract negotiations were going. Investors on Wall Street heard and listened as did the company, as it grabbed their attention in a very big way, because a lot of people started to realize that the negotiations were far from a non-event. Shortly after that, the negotiations started showing some progress on the side of the company.

The right people sometimes are not necessarily the one's in DC, but the ones on Wall Street. When you have the ability to somehow influence the stock price, a lot of deaf ears suddenly start hearing again.

"Politicians listen to labor....they are voting consituents... And alot of them are Repubs!!

RLA=federal=CapHill"

I agree, that it is good to have at least some connections in DC, and we do have some there. But, we also have our eggs spread out evenly among the baskets too.

"Cabatoge, FFDO, security, off line jumpseat and AGE 60 just to name a few are being decided on Cap Hill. Where is your say on these issues? You don't have one. And that may be fine with you. And that is ok too."

Actually, we do have a say. Our union has contacts and we are heavily involved with CAPA. We are not sitting by the wayside letting everyone else speak for us.

"In fact, the United pilots understand this well enough to get their own in house PAC! But don't get mad at the UAL pilots for knowing how the legislative system works and using it!"

This next comment may stir the pot a little, but I will speak anyway. First, I don't want to be involved in the same union that UAL is involved with. One reason is pensions. ALPA cannot do anything to even salvage a little bit for the UAL pilots. According to our latest union update, us and the company are close to an agreement on our pensions, and it is for the better, not worse. If UAL pilots know the legislative system so well, how come they are getting screwed by the airline AND the federal government on their pensions?

And with regards to off-line jumpseats, our union has been very heavily involved with the CASS program and very proactive in getting it in working order.

"Bottom line... money talks, something else walks.... If you are not involved on CapHill in some form you are just a spectator in your airline career....."

I agree, and that is why we have a presence there. ALPA is there too, but I wouldn't say they are speaking for us, they are speaking WITH us. We are far from being spectators.

Good post and reply. Glad you are educated and involved! It doesn't matter if it is ALPA, ALPO, APA, SWAPA, IPA or whoever, just as long pilots have a voice locally and on the national level....

 

[FoxHunter]

The agenda of the association is available for its members. Always has been. When our LEC officers told the membership they were going to the ALPA BOD...they couldn't even get everyone to stop talking to be heard...

Look, I am not saying the National salaries are right or wrong, but if it really mattered you guys wouldn't wait for the message boards to tell you about it, then claim you were kept in the dark until now! C'mon, you're pilots, take some repsonsibility.....

The industry is imploding on the pilots and the big issue is union salaries?? WTFO? After you fix them, then what? What is next?

Get involved... look in the mirror.....

Geez, I seem to get posted messages a few times a month from the MEC Chairman, Vice Chairman, and others holding office. I can guarantee you that 90%+ of ALPA members were not aware of National salaries. I suggest that the isssue should be discussed in the next issue of Airline Pilot, think that will ever happen? Just keep sending your dues, have faith, right!

 

[sleepy]

Also FALSE.

Well that is the way it worked at my former ALPA carrier.

 

[philo beddoe]

The problem I see with the unity issue is that it assumes that we all want the same things, or even something clse to the same things.

Suppose all the alpa pilots got together and decided we were finally going to 'do something'. Even if we could agree on what action to take, how could we all agree on when to 'settle'.

The "all or nothing" folks are maybe 10-20% of the group
The "most of what we wanted" group maybe 60%
The "oh my god, I can't lose my job just sign the dang TA!!" group - remaining 20% or so.

We are all going to "cave in" at different points, so could we ever be really unified? I really wonder about this.

 

[TonyC]

Well that is the way it worked at my former ALPA carrier.

Not all contracts are created equal.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Geez, I seem to get posted messages a few times a month from the MEC Chairman, Vice Chairman, and others holding office. I can guarantee you that 90%+ of ALPA members were not aware of National salaries. I suggest that the isssue should be discussed in the next issue of Airline Pilot, think that will ever happen? Just keep sending your dues, have faith, right!

as I said, if it was a big issue, you would have found out on your own accord instead of the message boards... (cause you really concern yourself with ALPA Affairs! )

But now that you know, call your MEC and ask.... Find out why and maybe it will make sense. Or maybe you can find out how to change it.....

 

[sleepy]

Not all contracts are created equal.

Isn't that ALPA's biggest problem? Some are more equal than others, but then there is always somebody out there that will do it for less pay.

 

[Mugs]

I love how ALPA will now try to convince the bankruptcy court and the PBGC that the pensions should be wiped out and left for the tax payers. I thought the United guys/gals were the strongest of the bunch and like a deck of cards they fold. I for one don't want to be left holding the bag for failed ideas and greed.

I got a better idea then. How about the UAL pilots fight the company despite the checkmate position they are in, and guarantee a CH7? It is guaranteed, by the way, since all the potential financial instituions have clearly stated that exit financing will not be available without the elimination of the pension plans. Then, you the taxpayer can still bail out the PBGC and you can help pay unemployment benefits for the 65,000 employees that wake up one day all out of work at the same time? Sound good to you genius?

 

[TonyC]

Isn't that ALPA's biggest problem? Some are more equal than others, but then there is always somebody out there that will do it for less pay.

I'd say it's a strength. If every airline was identical, then I suppose the contracts could be identical. However, what works for Delta might not work for United, and most probably would not work for FedEx. What works for FedEx might be totally unacceptable at NorthWest. MECs negotiate contracts, not ALPA national. ALPA national provides expertise and resources, but ultimately it's the folks the pilots elect that do the work.

ALPA national is an easy target if you're discontented, but your arrows should be aimed closer to home.

 

[StaySeated]

I'm Wrong again, as usual...

I stand corrected, fedex was not an alpa carrier when I was a gung ho union volunteer/negotiator. I should have said "every carrier on the planet except fedex has agency shop". Merry New Year! Beef Jerky?

 

[sleepy]

I'd say it's a strength. If every airline was identical, then I suppose the contracts could be identical. However, what works for Delta might not work for United, and most probably would not work for FedEx. What works for FedEx might be totally unacceptable at NorthWest. MECs negotiate contracts, not ALPA national. ALPA national provides expertise and resources, but ultimately it's the folks the pilots elect that do the work.

ALPA national is an easy target if you're discontented, but your arrows should be aimed closer to home.

I no longer have a dog in this fight, but as a former ALPA member looking at this from the outside I must say that ALPA really has nobody to blame for this mess but themselves. ALPA allowed the codesharing, then allowed two levels of representation (the haves and the have-nots). Now market forces are dictating pilot pay and benefits based on the lowest bidder.

What you really need is a national contract that sets an industry standard for each segment of the industry. Of course this will only work if ALPA controls the majority of the labor commodity.