Resigning from a Major Airline?

[Bally]

While there are many perks working for an airline (no in-baskets, phone calls to return at the end of the day, etc) I am wondering if I am the only one out there that is surprised to find that this job may not be right for me.

After being in the business world for most of my professional life, I did the proverbial career change and became a pilot. After being with a major airline for a little over one year, I am wondering how I could do this for the next 20 years.

While the airline I fly for is awesome, I am finding that the life of the airline pilot is filled with sometimes mind numbing monotony. Flying what seems like endless legs one after the other.

Contributing to the monotony is the fact that there are no high points like winning a contract in the business world after months of strategizing a plan. I guess flying a particularly challenging leg through wx can be interesting, and the culture and people at the airline are great; most of the time is rather benign.

Is it rear for someone who has been fortunate to have been given a job with a major airline to leave? Anyone else share my view? What am I missing? Perhaps I just do not have the airline pilot gene.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Ernest Gann left as did Gene Roddenberry.

A good friend of mine was hired by jetBlue a few months ago and turned down the job because he is doing something he likes better. He has found a way to combine flying airplanes and being in business for himself.

I think a lot of guys get to the point you are at, but they don't have other options to make the kind of money or have the lifestyle that a job at a major can provide.

In the end you have to do what makes you happy.


Typhoonpilot

 

[SWAdude]

Bally,

The airline profession is not for everyone. As well as being in the business world is not one of my preferences. All of my non-airline friends constantly harass me on what appears to them to be a pretty easy lifestyle us pilots seem to have. We all know that they don't see up hand the challenges we face with our profession. But personally I can't imagine doing anything else that gives me such satisfaction. I truly feel blessed. As well as anyone that truly enjoys their line of work would feel.

Nobody lives in your shoes so no way could anyone know what is best for you. We all know how competitive the pilot profession can be. But if your not happy, life is too short to do something your not happy with.

SWAdude

 

[English]

Bally,

I feel your pain. I'm having adjustment issues of my own, having recently left a corporate gig I loved to go to an airline.


Perhaps doing some things on the side will help? Maybe starting your own business will do the trick.

 

[jetexas]

I could definitely see where someone might harbor thoughts of moving on.
I love flying and I like my job. However, I sometimes think about what it would be like to be home very night, etc. It would sure make the home life easier and life in general a bit more stable. In ways maybe more relaxing since you are not running around like crazy from plane to plane, airport to airport, hotel to hotel. The drawbacks of a 'real' job are rush hour traffic, less time off (if not more time at home), etc. I could not handle an office job either. That's the thing...what to do other than fly? I have been in aviation all of my adult life.
I agree with that above, just do what makes you happy. For me, for now, it's flying. However, one day I may move on.

 

[bafanguy]

Bally,

As English said, do something on the side to provide some diversity and balance.

What I can tell you from having known a few people who cut bait from major airlines, you don't want to look back from your mid 50's and regret having left the airline ( particularly a successful one ) under the influence of a relatively short-term variation in your attitude towards that flying. THAT would be mind-bending and could produce a lifetime of regret.

If your carrier is doing well, hang in there and add something different on the side. Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

 

[Publishers]

life

There are no rules on what makes you feel satisfied nor what type life you want. There are those who like and are comfortable with the routine and relative stability.

Others thrive on the new challenges that come with doing something relatively different everyday.

In the end, you can have someone elses all and have nothing at all.

Just as someone elses cross can look more attractive to carry than the one you have, you might find it heavier or less comfortable than the one on your own back. The one you have is unique because it is yours.

 

[AlbieF15]

Actually, for the last 2 1/2 years I've tried to encourage a large number of FedEx pilots to wake up and smell the coffee, and realize that working this tough, back side of the clock lifestyle was slowly killing their health, their family life, and any remaining spirit left in their soul.

The fact is getting up to go to work when all you do is fly cargo around for the profit of the company and the covenience of the hoards of procrastinators out there is simply a waste of a livlihood. Where is the joy? I think almost anyone in the industry, especially those with a seniority number larger than, lets just say 4000 or so, ought to consider the horrible impact this mindless job can have on one's future!

I try to remind those guys regularly of all the other great opportunties that await them just beyond those bleak, purple walls and midnight arrivals into the hub, followed only by the post dawn arrival into yet another carcinogen filled industrial town with a mediocre hotel bed that is slowly destroying their spines. I encourage them regularly to stay young and vibrant by attacking life with gusto, and taking on such adrenalin pumping sports as motorcyle riding (without helments), hang gliding, free diving, bungee jumping, white water kayaking (without lifejackets...they bind and ruin the wilderness experience), raising pit bulls, and donating their free time walking through middle eastern cities as American "ambassadors of goodwill".

Bally, I'm looking forward to us getting our offline jumpseats back so you can join us in the hub and spread your insights to the rest of our crew force. God bless you in your efforts...

 

[Heavy Set]

Do you think you could return to your previous BBJ job? I have been around these boards long enough to remember your decision making process from the great BBJ gig to your current situation. I remember it well...

My furlough has opened up a new door for me because now I am seeing more of the non-airline flying experience. It is very different and it might be a bit of a transition to return to airline flying someday.

It doesn't surprise me that the current flying you are doing can be monotonous and uninspiring vs. your previous position. You work for a great airline, but "security" alone cannot always inspire you to get up every morning. That must be quite a revelation for you - flying is actually hard work sometimes. Quick turnarounds and 6-7 legs per day for multiple days can be difficult - probably more difficult than some of the LA - Paris runs you used to do...

If you can get back to your previous BBJ gig, I would certainly look into it or follow one of your other passions. Sure, there is something to be said for security, but life is too short to be bored all the time...

Good luck

 

[Stinkbug]

Bally,

I understand where you're coming from, but you really need to ask yourself, if you do leave, how will you feel about your decision a month from now? A year from now? Will you look longingly at every airplane that passes overhead? Or will you be able to honestly say, "I sure don't miss that!"

If you do leave, make darn sure it's really what you want. Getting to a major airline is not something you're likely to be able to do a second time, if you decide later that you made a mistake.

 

[SuperFLUF]

While After being with a major airline for a little over one year, I am wondering how I could do this for the next 20 years.

While the airline I fly for is awesome, I am finding that the life of the airline pilot is filled with sometimes mind numbing monotony. Flying what seems like endless legs one after the other.............

Lemme guess.............Southwest?

 

[F16TJ]

Albie...

You crack me up, dude, that was a hilarious post!

Out...

 

[Ty Webb]

I think "the grass is always greener " can definitely apply to those of us who have transitioned from a decent corporate job to the airlines.

While I admit to occaisionally waxing nostalgic about the odd Telluride trip or the week I spent in Alaska, or the fun of an empty leg, I can tell you that there is no way in hell I am giving up my 17 days off per month and the ability to leave my flight case in the Bag Room (and not be accountable to anyone) to go back to corporate . . . no way, no how . . . it's not even open to consideration!

If you are thinking you would be happier where you were, for God's sake, go back to where you want to be, and give your seat to some poor slob who is furloughed and would love to have it!

Whatever you do, good luck, but if you don't like the airline thing, then please don't take up a seat that could go to someone else. Take your old job back, and be happy there.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[mar]

Some people will never be happy...

...no matter what.

What else did you expect?

Career changers crack me up.

 

[JPB]

Albie, that was great

Heavy set
I remember Bally mentioning flying the A320 in a previous life

Bally:
SWA success relies on the commitment of each employee to give 100%. It is rare in any industry, especially for a company that has been in business for 30 years.
You are not helping anyone by being miserable and surely 1 of the 15000 guys in the street would be glad to have your seat.

Good luck

 

[PBE]

Here's the flip side for you. After a dozen years of flying the line, I felt there was "something more out there" for me. I wasn't using my degree, flying didn't satisfy my soul or sense of challenge anymore.

Then, the job of system chief pilot for my large regional (soon to be LCC) fell into my lap. I grabbed it and relished the 9 to 5 life, making things happen and even defending "my" pilots over at the FSDO each time there was an issue.

After three years of constant small fires to put out, calls in the middle of the night to stop a fight 'tween a Captain & a dispatcher I burned out. I hated the phone ringing, I hated answering the same question 1000 times 'cause every pilot wanted to hear it directly from me when there was a change at the company. I woke up one morning and realised this 9 to 5 job was robbing me of time with my wife & kids and I really had no clue anymore what flying the line, my true reason for getting into aviation in the first place, was anymore.

I resigned my CP job and went back to the line. At first it was horrible. I had to get my "line savvy" skills back. F/Os didn't want to fly with "the man" or offer help, and I did miss being able to pick up the phone to make something happen.

That was almost 8 years ago when I returned to the line. I put my flight bag in the crew room after a trip and love the silent phone. My wife and I have more time for each other, I get to devote 100% attention to my kids.

Think long & hard about your choice. I was lucky to dabble in the business world without loosing any seniority and learned my lesson. I love the simple pleasure of flying the line.

 

[Flying Freddie]

It is real simple. If you aren't lazy you shouldn't be a pilot.

 

[On Your Six]

Hey JPB,

Heavy Set was right. Conduct a search using BBJ and Bally and you will find the following post. Hey, I wish him the best because I have made the transition myself and I am fighting between continuing to fly in the corporate world (I kinda like it) and returning to the so-called "secure" major airline world. It's a tough call because SWA is a fantastic operation. Flying a BBJ worldwide wouldn't be bad either.... I wish Bally luck - and I suggest he goes with his "gut" on this one.

Bally's original post (probably 9 months ago):


Corporate vs Airlines
Has anyone worked both sides of the fence?

I have been in the SWA pool for over a year, and hope to be invited to a class this year. I have spent my entire aviation career as a corporate pilot. I am considering giving up a fairly good paying stable corporate position for the airlines, with the illusion that working for a major will provide me and my family a better overall quality of life.

While I will be taking a significnat pay cut, the quality of life issue seems to far outweigh the compensation.

I would appreciate any feedback to what it's really like flying at a major airline, and/or SWA in particular.

The following represents how the sky looks in my world. Please let me know if I am seeing the other side as greener than it really is.

Thanks!!!

Pros of Corporate:

Flying all over the world often to challenging airports like Telluride, CO or Lima Peru. Although I have been a corporate aviator for over 13 years, many of my trips are to places that I have never been to. The flying rearly gets boring.

Being 100% in-charge of the trip. When you launch, it is up to you to ensure that the flight planning is accurate, enough fuel is on-board, you can get fuel at places like Luxor Egypt (was there last week, cost me my favorite Univ. of Michigan sweat shirt to get fuel). Never a dull moment.

If you do get layed off or fired (corporate generally does not have furloughs) there are hundreds of other companies with flight departments. It is much easier for someone with a strong corporate background to find another job within the industry. Not true for a layed off airline pilot trying to break into corporate flying.

Cons of Corporate:

Very few companies have a fixed schedule. It does get old to have your trip cancelled or created one hour prior to blast off. Especially when flying overseas.

The best path for a good salary in corporate aviation is to fly "the big iron", like the Boeing Business Jet, Gulfstream V, or Global Express. These aircraft have a 6,500+ nm range which translates into long trips. Last month I was gone 28 days. Generally speaking, the bigger the jet, the bigger your suitcase.

I am a PIC on a Boeing Bus Jet. The max pay at my Company (a Fortune 500 Corp.) is $150K plus 401K and standard health benifits. I believe this to be rather stadard in the industry.

No union protection. Although I have worked for the same company for nine years (great company by the way), I have seen pilots get fired because the passenger did not like the pilots landings. This is less true at a Fortune 500 Corp where we have a Human Resources Dept. Small operators can be difficult since you are literally at the mercy of the personality of the "boss". I was terminated from my first corporate job because I was was not comfortable schlepping to the specialty dog store before each trip to get the boss's dog her favorite dog biscuits. While I am the first one eager to ensure that the passengers are comfortable, this became rediculous and intererred with my duties as the PIC. I was also requried to drive to the boss's house to pick-up the luggage. Flying the airplane was a minor part of the job.

We often stay at a one place for many days while the passengers are conducting business. When I was single, this was a blast. I would now rather fly when I am at work than stay in a hotel. While it is nice to be on a beach in the French Riviera for five days, if you are not with your family, the novalty wears off.

Pros of Airline:

SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SCHEDULE

While I really like the folks I fly with, it does get a bit boring flyng with the same crew year after year. It seems the diversity of people you fly with at the airlines would be interesting.

Knowing when you are going to be home!!!

Percieved Cons of an Airline:

Is the flying boring?

I heard that at certain airlines, the employees are very negative. Northing worse than working at a company where the company culture is to b--itch and moan all the time.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[On Your Six]

I copied Heavy Set's response to Bally in that original post and then Bally's response at the bottom.


Heavy Set's response to Bally's post:


Bally,

Sounds like you have reached the "pinnacle" of corporate aviation. Flying a BBJ or Gulfstream IV around the world. Do you know how many pilots (in general) would love to have that opportunity? You have reached the APEX of corporate aviation. You fly one of the most capable and awe-inspiring corporate aircraft on the ramp - Lears don't garner attention at Van Nuys like the BBJs do...

Now you want to maybe leave and start as an FO for 5-6 years flying between El Paso and Tulsa. Sure, Southwest is very stable - probably the most stable airline out there... The salary and benefits will be pretty good. You can probably fly to all four corners of the country in one four-day trip. But unlike Jetblue which flies maybe 3-4 sectors per day (1-2 if you include a transcon), at Southwest you might fly 5-6 sectors - this is "hard" flying. Sure you won't work 28 days per month, but you will work very hard days of exhaustive flying - up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down... We are talking about 20-30 minute turns - no, you can't take a dump, you need to do the pre-flight NOW!!!!!

We have heard ad nauseum about the virtues of Southwest and its FANTASTIC corporate culture and esprit de corps, but I have also heard first-hand how difficult and monotonous the flying can be... If you want a very stable job, a super-fun culture, the 737 for the rest of your life (not the choice between a BBJ and a sleek GIV), 5-6 years until you reach Captain, and extremely good familiarity with the approaches into El Paso, then Southwest is your choice. No doubt it is a great airline - extreme stability in a very turbulent time...

But you will be giving up probably the most "cherry" corporate position out there. I don't know the details of your monthly schedule, but I bet you don't work 28 days EVERY month. And I bet you don't fly between El Paso and Tulsa much.

I don't want to be flamed. I am trying to provide the devil's advocate position. This will be a very, very difficult decision to make. Southwest will continue to do well, but you need to determine if the "Southwest" style of flying is right for you. You may work only 16 days per month vs. 16+ on the BBJ - but those days will most likely be exhausting.

The airlines are not always the answer - look at what is happening at UAL - everyone's choice for employment just 2-3 years ago...

Tough choice. Good luck!



Then Bally's response:


Thanks for all the great comments guys (gals)! I know I am very very fortunate that I have a job given the number of our fellow pilots out of work. All in all, I look forward to an invitation to a class at Southwest Airlines where I will finally see first hand the other side.

I am however, glad that my leaving my current employer will open a space for another pilot to fly the mighty BBJ at a great company. The net effect will be one additional pilot job among a very professional group of folks.

I am happily on my way to some po-dunk town in Russia that I have never heard of. With four RON's there, I guess the soup de jour will be Vodka this week. This is especially true since I am flying with my CP (just kidding). I will be off line since the Rooskies do not have internet access.

Keep warm.



Sounds like Bally enjoyed his exotic corporate flying.

__________________

 

[AlbieF15]

Tongue out of cheek now...

I just wrote a fellow FDX pilot considering going to another carrier... There are some common threads here.

First, do not judge your career based on what you are doing in year 1 or 2 of your job! You won't be on reserve forever, its likely your trips will get better and better. Once you can find a trip or two you like you will likely be eventually able to bid and hold those trips.

Second--don't make a permanent decision based on a temporary bout of uncertainly/depression/malaise. Moods change. Don't pine for the past--you likely remember all the good but selectively forget some of the bad.

My best friend at FDX flew GIVs and GVs for a while. He said most corporate guys have a tale that goes like this:

"It was the greatest job in the world until _____________"
fill in the blank with either
A-the company got bought out
B-we sold/downsized the flight department
C-a new chief pilot came in and changed the rules
D-they started expecting me to (fill in non-flying BS here)

While your airline job may be predicatable, that same predicatablity allows you to embrace a life outside your job. You can have your own business, be a simulator instructor, develop you hobbies, volunteer time with charities or other noble causes, relish your family (my favorite activity--sleeping in with wife after kids off to school and taking her to nice lunch date).

Want perspective? Go downtown...anywhere. Look in the offices, the stores, the goverment facilities...and ask how many folks you'd trade jobs with. Layovers away from family get to be a drag. Know what--so does going to work EVERY DAY, leaving at 7am and getting home (sometimes after dark) at 5-6 pm. I have a Dr. buddy who works for a practice affilitated with a national health firm--great job...makes 175-200k/year. However, he has to ASK for vacation, and cannot take single days (ie. take Friday and Monday off for a 4 day weekend) but once or twice a year. How many airline pilots have dropped or traded trips here or there to have a needed week off with family or extended their skiing or SCUBA vacation somewhere?

Yeah...sometimes flying is just work. I love flying the Eagle, but some days briefing and getting ready to go teach a kid is just a chore. I'd rather be cleaning out my garage or jetskiing on the bay. However...if I have to work to support my family, I'm greatful its spent raging on BFM sortie at home or sleeping in a nice hotel in Great Falls or Reno instead of being trapped at a desk somewhere--but that's just me. Nothing is free, but making a living flying isn't a bad job to face getting out of bed for in the morning.