Resigning from a Major Airline?

[PBE]

Here's the flip side for you. After a dozen years of flying the line, I felt there was "something more out there" for me. I wasn't using my degree, flying didn't satisfy my soul or sense of challenge anymore.

Then, the job of system chief pilot for my large regional (soon to be LCC) fell into my lap. I grabbed it and relished the 9 to 5 life, making things happen and even defending "my" pilots over at the FSDO each time there was an issue.

After three years of constant small fires to put out, calls in the middle of the night to stop a fight 'tween a Captain & a dispatcher I burned out. I hated the phone ringing, I hated answering the same question 1000 times 'cause every pilot wanted to hear it directly from me when there was a change at the company. I woke up one morning and realised this 9 to 5 job was robbing me of time with my wife & kids and I really had no clue anymore what flying the line, my true reason for getting into aviation in the first place, was anymore.

I resigned my CP job and went back to the line. At first it was horrible. I had to get my "line savvy" skills back. F/Os didn't want to fly with "the man" or offer help, and I did miss being able to pick up the phone to make something happen.

That was almost 8 years ago when I returned to the line. I put my flight bag in the crew room after a trip and love the silent phone. My wife and I have more time for each other, I get to devote 100% attention to my kids.

Think long & hard about your choice. I was lucky to dabble in the business world without loosing any seniority and learned my lesson. I love the simple pleasure of flying the line.

 

[Flying Freddie]

It is real simple. If you aren't lazy you shouldn't be a pilot.

 

[On Your Six]

Hey JPB,

Heavy Set was right. Conduct a search using BBJ and Bally and you will find the following post. Hey, I wish him the best because I have made the transition myself and I am fighting between continuing to fly in the corporate world (I kinda like it) and returning to the so-called "secure" major airline world. It's a tough call because SWA is a fantastic operation. Flying a BBJ worldwide wouldn't be bad either.... I wish Bally luck - and I suggest he goes with his "gut" on this one.

Bally's original post (probably 9 months ago):


Corporate vs Airlines
Has anyone worked both sides of the fence?

I have been in the SWA pool for over a year, and hope to be invited to a class this year. I have spent my entire aviation career as a corporate pilot. I am considering giving up a fairly good paying stable corporate position for the airlines, with the illusion that working for a major will provide me and my family a better overall quality of life.

While I will be taking a significnat pay cut, the quality of life issue seems to far outweigh the compensation.

I would appreciate any feedback to what it's really like flying at a major airline, and/or SWA in particular.

The following represents how the sky looks in my world. Please let me know if I am seeing the other side as greener than it really is.

Thanks!!!

Pros of Corporate:

Flying all over the world often to challenging airports like Telluride, CO or Lima Peru. Although I have been a corporate aviator for over 13 years, many of my trips are to places that I have never been to. The flying rearly gets boring.

Being 100% in-charge of the trip. When you launch, it is up to you to ensure that the flight planning is accurate, enough fuel is on-board, you can get fuel at places like Luxor Egypt (was there last week, cost me my favorite Univ. of Michigan sweat shirt to get fuel). Never a dull moment.

If you do get layed off or fired (corporate generally does not have furloughs) there are hundreds of other companies with flight departments. It is much easier for someone with a strong corporate background to find another job within the industry. Not true for a layed off airline pilot trying to break into corporate flying.

Cons of Corporate:

Very few companies have a fixed schedule. It does get old to have your trip cancelled or created one hour prior to blast off. Especially when flying overseas.

The best path for a good salary in corporate aviation is to fly "the big iron", like the Boeing Business Jet, Gulfstream V, or Global Express. These aircraft have a 6,500+ nm range which translates into long trips. Last month I was gone 28 days. Generally speaking, the bigger the jet, the bigger your suitcase.

I am a PIC on a Boeing Bus Jet. The max pay at my Company (a Fortune 500 Corp.) is $150K plus 401K and standard health benifits. I believe this to be rather stadard in the industry.

No union protection. Although I have worked for the same company for nine years (great company by the way), I have seen pilots get fired because the passenger did not like the pilots landings. This is less true at a Fortune 500 Corp where we have a Human Resources Dept. Small operators can be difficult since you are literally at the mercy of the personality of the "boss". I was terminated from my first corporate job because I was was not comfortable schlepping to the specialty dog store before each trip to get the boss's dog her favorite dog biscuits. While I am the first one eager to ensure that the passengers are comfortable, this became rediculous and intererred with my duties as the PIC. I was also requried to drive to the boss's house to pick-up the luggage. Flying the airplane was a minor part of the job.

We often stay at a one place for many days while the passengers are conducting business. When I was single, this was a blast. I would now rather fly when I am at work than stay in a hotel. While it is nice to be on a beach in the French Riviera for five days, if you are not with your family, the novalty wears off.

Pros of Airline:

SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SCHEDULE

While I really like the folks I fly with, it does get a bit boring flyng with the same crew year after year. It seems the diversity of people you fly with at the airlines would be interesting.

Knowing when you are going to be home!!!

Percieved Cons of an Airline:

Is the flying boring?

I heard that at certain airlines, the employees are very negative. Northing worse than working at a company where the company culture is to b--itch and moan all the time.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[On Your Six]

I copied Heavy Set's response to Bally in that original post and then Bally's response at the bottom.


Heavy Set's response to Bally's post:


Bally,

Sounds like you have reached the "pinnacle" of corporate aviation. Flying a BBJ or Gulfstream IV around the world. Do you know how many pilots (in general) would love to have that opportunity? You have reached the APEX of corporate aviation. You fly one of the most capable and awe-inspiring corporate aircraft on the ramp - Lears don't garner attention at Van Nuys like the BBJs do...

Now you want to maybe leave and start as an FO for 5-6 years flying between El Paso and Tulsa. Sure, Southwest is very stable - probably the most stable airline out there... The salary and benefits will be pretty good. You can probably fly to all four corners of the country in one four-day trip. But unlike Jetblue which flies maybe 3-4 sectors per day (1-2 if you include a transcon), at Southwest you might fly 5-6 sectors - this is "hard" flying. Sure you won't work 28 days per month, but you will work very hard days of exhaustive flying - up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down... We are talking about 20-30 minute turns - no, you can't take a dump, you need to do the pre-flight NOW!!!!!

We have heard ad nauseum about the virtues of Southwest and its FANTASTIC corporate culture and esprit de corps, but I have also heard first-hand how difficult and monotonous the flying can be... If you want a very stable job, a super-fun culture, the 737 for the rest of your life (not the choice between a BBJ and a sleek GIV), 5-6 years until you reach Captain, and extremely good familiarity with the approaches into El Paso, then Southwest is your choice. No doubt it is a great airline - extreme stability in a very turbulent time...

But you will be giving up probably the most "cherry" corporate position out there. I don't know the details of your monthly schedule, but I bet you don't work 28 days EVERY month. And I bet you don't fly between El Paso and Tulsa much.

I don't want to be flamed. I am trying to provide the devil's advocate position. This will be a very, very difficult decision to make. Southwest will continue to do well, but you need to determine if the "Southwest" style of flying is right for you. You may work only 16 days per month vs. 16+ on the BBJ - but those days will most likely be exhausting.

The airlines are not always the answer - look at what is happening at UAL - everyone's choice for employment just 2-3 years ago...

Tough choice. Good luck!



Then Bally's response:


Thanks for all the great comments guys (gals)! I know I am very very fortunate that I have a job given the number of our fellow pilots out of work. All in all, I look forward to an invitation to a class at Southwest Airlines where I will finally see first hand the other side.

I am however, glad that my leaving my current employer will open a space for another pilot to fly the mighty BBJ at a great company. The net effect will be one additional pilot job among a very professional group of folks.

I am happily on my way to some po-dunk town in Russia that I have never heard of. With four RON's there, I guess the soup de jour will be Vodka this week. This is especially true since I am flying with my CP (just kidding). I will be off line since the Rooskies do not have internet access.

Keep warm.



Sounds like Bally enjoyed his exotic corporate flying.

__________________

 

[AlbieF15]

Tongue out of cheek now...

I just wrote a fellow FDX pilot considering going to another carrier... There are some common threads here.

First, do not judge your career based on what you are doing in year 1 or 2 of your job! You won't be on reserve forever, its likely your trips will get better and better. Once you can find a trip or two you like you will likely be eventually able to bid and hold those trips.

Second--don't make a permanent decision based on a temporary bout of uncertainly/depression/malaise. Moods change. Don't pine for the past--you likely remember all the good but selectively forget some of the bad.

My best friend at FDX flew GIVs and GVs for a while. He said most corporate guys have a tale that goes like this:

"It was the greatest job in the world until _____________"
fill in the blank with either
A-the company got bought out
B-we sold/downsized the flight department
C-a new chief pilot came in and changed the rules
D-they started expecting me to (fill in non-flying BS here)

While your airline job may be predicatable, that same predicatablity allows you to embrace a life outside your job. You can have your own business, be a simulator instructor, develop you hobbies, volunteer time with charities or other noble causes, relish your family (my favorite activity--sleeping in with wife after kids off to school and taking her to nice lunch date).

Want perspective? Go downtown...anywhere. Look in the offices, the stores, the goverment facilities...and ask how many folks you'd trade jobs with. Layovers away from family get to be a drag. Know what--so does going to work EVERY DAY, leaving at 7am and getting home (sometimes after dark) at 5-6 pm. I have a Dr. buddy who works for a practice affilitated with a national health firm--great job...makes 175-200k/year. However, he has to ASK for vacation, and cannot take single days (ie. take Friday and Monday off for a 4 day weekend) but once or twice a year. How many airline pilots have dropped or traded trips here or there to have a needed week off with family or extended their skiing or SCUBA vacation somewhere?

Yeah...sometimes flying is just work. I love flying the Eagle, but some days briefing and getting ready to go teach a kid is just a chore. I'd rather be cleaning out my garage or jetskiing on the bay. However...if I have to work to support my family, I'm greatful its spent raging on BFM sortie at home or sleeping in a nice hotel in Great Falls or Reno instead of being trapped at a desk somewhere--but that's just me. Nothing is free, but making a living flying isn't a bad job to face getting out of bed for in the morning.

 

[JPB]

On Your Six

I was joking about the A320. I remember that Bally wasn't happy about the airlines using it. I could be wrong but i remember thinking that we would still be flying DC8 (*) if it wasn't for some competition in the manufacturing business.


Hoping that Bally could find the LUUUUUUUUUUUV....just have to look in the right place. It's there man...all around you .

Good luck to you my friend



(*)The DC8's fuel Xfeed valve is controlled by cable via a lever about the size of the landing gear lever on the 73. Fuel burn of about 12000lbs/hr on the early version. However, the electrical system autoparalleling was very advanced for the time if i recall.

 

[some_dude]

Check into whether SWA has a leave of absence program. That way you could try doing something else without losing your seniority number.

I would think long and hard before I gave up my seniority number.

 

[English]

This is just the thread I needed to read this week. Thanks. Albie and Heavy Set have some good insight.

 

[CODs4ever]

I was terminated from my first corporate job because I was was not comfortable schlepping to the specialty dog store before each trip to get the boss's dog her favorite dog biscuits.

That's ridiculous. I'm surprised you waited to get fired from that job. I probably would have quit. When I hear about frac guys who have to occasionally clean the lavatories in their Citations, I wince. But to be degraded to being a "dog-servant"... that takes the cake.

 

[Heavy Set]

I wish Bally luck. If I were Bally, I'd check to see if he could get back to his BBJ job before making any rash decisions. If he stays with SWA, at least he will be confident that the paycheck will arrive on time - a lot of us don't have that luxury...

Let us know what happens.

 

[cactuspilot]

do 6 months over at A&W. that'l cure ya. you would be so happy when you got back to WN you would drive the lav truck for free on the weekends!

 

[AV8OR]

Once upon a time......

a older gentlemen in the biz world said to me.....

"if you can, never make a job change in less than five years, because it takes that long to really feel out the job and make yourself marketable for anyone who who hire you."

While that is not always an option in aviation, I try and take it and another principle, "Not making big changes during a time of weakness." to heart and try and be discerning with those things in mind.

I've flown good corp. and good airline, and you are very right about both having their strengths and weaknesses. For me it's ultimately my priority to gain the greatest income for the least time worked, which I think isn't lazy just efficient, that drives me to my particular airline and flight schedule. Too that end, I don't typically pick up much open time or accept Field Emergency work because it drastically cuts in on my family time. One day, when the girls are older, maybe, but not now, and we budget and live quite well on that.

In order to continue to enjoy some of the corp type flying though, hedge my bets against, the ever possible evaporating airline jovb and to keep my hand in an area that might provide some continued flying beyond age 60, I am checking out ina G-II that I will fly 4 day trips a month in. I'll be gone before the family get's up and home for supper, providing some relief work for the full time pilots. Shouldn't really cut in to the family much, but, then again, I don't play a lot of golf, or fish, or hunt. Love to do all of em, just don't take the time away from the family to do it right now.

Flying is an enjoyable way to make a living most days, and for us, that's for US, my family, it's what we choose for now. May not always, but, the bottom line it serves our priorities, and hopefully will continue to.

With all that in mind, just be carefull man. You worked hard to get there. Nothing this side of eternity is going to totally satisfy all of your daily desires for significance and competence in your work. You might be able to find a side job in aircraft sales or flying corporate fill in work. Or, if you find the job itself not that a great a challenge to do well, then maybe seek out ways to pass on your knowledge and expertise to others or maybe find a way to be involved in other people's life in a charitible way to people in need. Let your job support your passions so to speak.

I know that was long winded. Just another perspective to add to the pile. Hope either way, you find what's right for you.

Hang in there.

"When the going get's tough, the tough get going.......and the rest go into management."

 

[English]

Bally, which road did you decide to take?

 

[AV80R]

"...and donating their free time walking through middle eastern cities as American "ambassadors of goodwill"....


That was hilarious

 

[AMRCostUnit]

You need a hobby...

AlbieF15 says --I How many airline pilots have dropped or traded trips here or there to have a needed week off with family or extended their skiing or SCUBA vacation somewhere?

BINGO! This here is the key: flexibility.

EVERY month I trade and drop and have at least one week in a row off. That is half of my 9-5 (or actually 7-7) neighbors' YEARLY vacations! If I didn't make such a good scratch margarita and have an inground pool, they'd burn down my house!

I am setting up the end of September/begining of October to drop just a two day and have 16 days off. Hitching up the travel trailer, loading up the kids (homeschooled), dog, cat, and...oh yeah, the wife to see what Northern Wisconsin has to offer this time of year.

At the end of the line it won't matter what you flew or where you've been. But the time off to make memories with your family make it all worth while.

Try to look at flying as a means to an end. Doing something you love so you can go do something with those you love.

Choose carefully Bally...

Unit