Reserve at SWA...

[canyonblue]

Our best trips are commutable on both ends, and have 1 or 2 legs per day

You will almost never see a "commutable on both ends" trip at SWA. There are some, but of course it depends on where you commute to. We have a large percentage of pilots who love in base, and by having a trip that is double commutable, it would erode the drip density. The majority of pilots want trips that are productive, therefore less days at work. The common ground appears to be the amount of time off for both demographics.

 

[redflyer65]

Agreed, that I'd prefer not to commute. But, what's the probability that I'll break guarantee on reserve on a regular basis?

I'd say the probability of a reserve breaking guarantee during the summer is pretty high, the exact opposite in the winter.

The second post of this thread covered it very well. Anything you pick up extra on reserve is above guarantee, but the caveat is you aren't usually legal for much because the company has you locked down on legality. They need their reserves to be legal on the company working days.

Hopefully we will see some improvements in the reserve section for the next contract they are working on now.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

You will almost never see a "commutable on both ends" trip at SWA. There are some, but of course it depends on where you commute to. We have a large percentage of pilots who love in base, and by having a trip that is double commutable, it would erode the drip density. The majority of pilots want trips that are productive, therefore less days at work. The common ground appears to be the amount of time off for both demographics.

I am looking forward to the "love in base" but is this what causes the "drip density"!

 

[dicko]

The other part of the equation that nobody is mentioning is this...

If it's commutable on both ends, it's probably not going to pay very well. I like good overnight cities just like everyone else. But in the end, I come to work to make as much money as possible for the time away from home...period. Whether you commute or not.

Others might not see things the same as I do and that's their deal. I'd rather have it commutable on one end and pay more than commutable on both ends with low pay.

I appreciate your point regarding trip efficiency with regard to AM/PM pairings. I like the idea of staying in the same circadian flow.

Have you really thought about the amount of time lost commuting in the day before, or commuting home the day after ? Thats not an efficient dollars earned/time ratio. It's a false economy for all commuters.

Time spent at work starts when you leave your house. That's why living in base is the best of all worlds (if you want to live there). SWA pilots who commute to AM/PM lines spend more time at work than those who can commute on the day of their trips beginning and end. That's not an efficiency. It's designed around living in base and driven by the old IT system.

Do you really know how many commute ? Most airlines have 65 - 70% commuters, yet the SWA system is designed for people who live in base. Supported by the senior live in base and the 'Luke i love the dry heat mafia' perhaps ?

A smart scheduling system can have the best of both worlds ..... Almost.

 

[Ty Webb]

Just because a pairing is commutable doesn't make it inefficient . . . it just has to start after 8:00 a.m. and finish before 22:00. There's still plenty of room for full duty periods.

 

[Tripower455]

In my entire 27 year career spanning 8 airlines, I've only been able to commute both ends of a trip on an airplane for 3.5 years of them. The trips typically didn't pay big $$$, but it was great while it lasted. Still driving, but it's a loooong drive.

 

[redflyer65]

I understand what your saying Dicko and actually agree with pretty much all of it. I'm not trying to get back into another poo slinging thread, but just trying to point out how it is at SW.

AM or PM starts are what we have. That's actually the way the scheduling section of the CBA is written. Can it be changed? Maybe, but it would take a lot of negotiating capital to accomplish.

I'd say we have similar percentage that commute. I've done plenty of it during my time here. Some of it coast to coast...so I'm familiar. But when commuting at SW, you will have one end commutable. It's the world we live in for the foreseeable future. So you will burn time (your personal time) at some point if you elect to commute. It's a much better gig if you live in base, just like every other airline I imagine.

I'm not knowledgeable about the AirTran double commute trips, but I imagine day one being maybe a mid-day start with two legs to your overnight. Maybe even Aruba. That would be awesome. And the last day similar, then commute home. If you commute on both ends, your line of flying isn't going to credit much.....that's my only point. Our three days credit MIN 19.5, with some as much as 23. I prefer the highest credit I can tolerate while I'm gone. Time/value/money, each has their own opinion and others might be 180 degrees from mine.

I get that you might want to continue a commute on both ends, it's just not going to happen here. It's a very rare case that you could get home on the back end of a PM, or get in early enough (and be legal per the CBA) on a AM.

I guess I'm just trying to help those coming over by saying 'plan accordingly.' You may disagree with our schedules, but they are what they are.

 

[SWA Bubba]

I appreciate your point regarding trip efficiency with regard to AM/PM pairings. I like the idea of staying in the same circadian flow.

Have you really thought about the amount of time lost commuting in the day before, or commuting home the day after ? Thats not an efficient dollars earned/time ratio. It's a false economy for all commuters.

Time spent at work starts when you leave your house. That's why living in base is the best of all worlds (if you want to live there). SWA pilots who commute to AM/PM lines spend more time at work than those who can commute on the day of their trips beginning and end. That's not an efficiency. It's designed around living in base and driven by the old IT system.

Do you really know how many commute ? Most airlines have 65 - 70% commuters, yet the SWA system is designed for people who live in base. Supported by the senior live in base and the 'Luke i love the dry heat mafia' perhaps ?

A smart scheduling system can have the best of both worlds ..... Almost.

According to the union, who keeps track of such things, SWAPA's pilots are almost exactly a 50/50 split of those who commute versus drive to work. I suppose having a larger number of bases spread throughout the country contributes to having more people drive to one of the domiciles.

A "smart scheduling system" can only accomplish things to the limit of the flying scheduled by the company. The sheer number of flights that depart early or land late at large SWA stations (all our bases) require that someone fly them at times that are clearly "non-commutable." That's just the way it works with our system--efficient and long use of the aircraft every flying day. As you guys point out, flying is "drying up" on that side of the partition, and you can afford to build more such pairings as Ty likes to fly. However, it won't work on our side; it's too inefficient for our system.

By virtue of our AM/PM and no redeye system, all SWA pairings (or I'll say 99%) are commutable on one end or the other, except, perhaps, by people with six-hour, cross-country commutes. (A few people have extra long commutes by choice, but most are for juniority reasons.) You can typically commute in in the morning of the first day of a PM, or commute home on the last day of an AM.

However, despite not doing redeyes, there ARE a few pairings (very few) that are commutable on both ends, and with a "normal" Southwest density. They are called PM-turned-AM pairings, and you see them occasionally. They typically require one, if not both, overnights to be in the 10ish hour range to accomplish this, and they almost always include a Friday and/or Saturday night (due to Saturday flying's late start and early finish). Perhaps they're designed with commuters in mind, but there can only be so many of them due to the way they're constructed, and personally, I suspect you'll see even fewer of them with the new crew rest rules in January. The company's going to have to give themselves more "wiggle room" on crew rest to account for irregular ops, and the new absolutes that cannot be exceeded.

Regardless, even if the company could create more pairings than they do with easy commute features, that doesn't guarantee that they'll go to commuters. Pairings that start late and/or finish early are probably just as desirable to pilots living in domicile. Plus, a lot of people hate those PM-turned-AMs, even commuters. I'm a commuter, and I won't fly them if possible (on the other hand, maybe I'm just old). Three full days of Southwest flying (and two of those three with commutes attached), with very little rest in between, is exhausting and leaves you tired for days afterward when you're home enjoying yourself. I suppose a personal definition of "quality of life" comes into play here.

Anyway, I hope that explains some of what you were wondering about. There is a union committee who works with the company to create the best pairings possible, and I think that as a whole, they do a pretty good job. You do see a few late-finishing AMs and early-starting PMs, but they work to minimize that. The bottom line is we have to be this efficient to get paid this well (otherwise the company would need more pilots for the same amount of flying). While new ideas are certainly welcomed, and if you AirTran guys have suggestions for the scheduling committee, please bring them on. If we can make our lives better, we're all for it, no matter where the ideas come from. However, thus far we've found it impossible to schedule trips the way you guys like them, and still get paid the way our guys like it. I think that's what we're seeing here.

Bubba

 

[Tripower455]

Our three days credit MIN 19.5, with some as much as 23.

We've got a fair amount of 24 and 25 tfp 3 days and I picked up a 27+ 3 day out of ELITT next week.....

 

[redflyer65]

We've got a fair amount of 24 and 25 tfp 3 days and I picked up a 27+ 3 day out of ELITT next week.....

I like the higher credit three days as well, the downside is your going to pay for it by working hard and have probably two shorter overnights. 27+ three day is huge.