Republic/Frontier/Midwest SLI Arbitration?

[hockeypilot44]

Could you please explain why some hope or believe final award will never be implemented? Is it because the F9/YX venture will be spun or merged with another carrier, ie. JetBlue or US Airways?

Furloughed YX

I think it's because there is no contract or agreement to actually merge the lists. Since Frontier and Republic are operating under two completely different contracts with no transition agreement, the lists will be separate until a joint contract is signed. US Airways is the example that comes to mind. I'm an outsider so this might not be correct.

 

[SkywayFO]

Keep Dreaming

 

[joevollers]

I hear that Embry-Riddle is buying Republic now. The MEI's will be considered equivalent to CP's. The CFII's without an MEI will be considered FO's.

All they are asking for is a ratio integration.

 

[StaySeated]

Keep Dreaming

Just out of curiosity, what is your perspective on implementation?

 

[SkywayFO]

The section of our scope below will put all F9 pilots on the street over time. That is not what I want at all but it is what would happen. C's will become replacement, if we get them. Any new bus will have to be flown by RAH pilots. At best F9 will stay at the current fleet. None of us should want that. We need to get the list merged and move on for all of our good. The whole deal is ********************ty for all of us, but it is the hand we have been given...We have to play it.



During the period of separate operations pilots on the
Chautauqua Pilots System Seniority List prior to the merger,
purchase, or acquisition shall operate all aircraft on hand at
the Company, all aircraft on firm order to the Company and
all aircraft acquired by the Company other than as a result of
the transaction after public announcement of the acquisition
in accordance with this Agreement, provided however that
nothing herein shall be construed to prevent fleet reductions
which are attributable to economic or other reasons and
conditions not related to the transaction, or the retirement of​

existing aircraft in the normal course of business.

 

[colorado14hi]

Are you sure this will be the scenario?

 

[SkywayFO]

If I knew for sure how everything would work out I would be a rich man. I'm just pointing out some of the contract issues and possible things that could happen. At a minimum this situation of 2 operations would be a managment wet dream, the whipsaw. Not good for any of us.

 

[fracpt]

I know who you are skyway FO- im watching you_LOL.... I have to say this guy knows the contract issues..

 

[fracpt]

HEY skywayFO can you tell me what will happen at my SWA now... -

 

[freightrash]

HEY skywayFO can you tell me what will happen at my SWA now... -

you will be ok for now. but as history keeps repeating, it will happen.

 

[F9 Driver]

The section of our scope below will put all F9 pilots on the street over time. That is not what I want at all but it is what would happen. C's will become replacement, if we get them. Any new bus will have to be flown by RAH pilots. At best F9 will stay at the current fleet. None of us should want that. We need to get the list merged and move on for all of our good. The whole deal is ********************ty for all of us, but it is the hand we have been given...We have to play it.



During the period of separate operations pilots on the
Chautauqua Pilots System Seniority List prior to the merger,
purchase, or acquisition shall operate all aircraft on hand at
the Company, all aircraft on firm order to the Company and
all aircraft acquired by the Company other than as a result of
the transaction after public announcement of the acquisition
in accordance with this Agreement, provided however that
nothing herein shall be construed to prevent fleet reductions
which are attributable to economic or other reasons and
conditions not related to the transaction, or the retirement of​

existing aircraft in the normal course of business.

And the portions of the other groups' CBAs that say the same with respect to them (us) mean what? RJET has entered into multiple transactions making them counter-party to several CBAs. The IBT/RAH CBA is but one, and has no more force than any other. I'd assert that it even has less relevance than the more recently affirmed FAPA CBA (inclusive of LOA 39). New 320s have come onto Frontier property since the transaction and are being flown by FAPA pilots. Why would that change? The C series falls under our CBA and will likely be flown by FAPA pilots - if it ever exists.

Anyway a breech of your Scope section is a minor grievance (not a major grievance that you are allowed to strike for) as defined by the RLA and NMB. Follow the grievance process when it happens. Odds are, given the IBT's track record, you'll lose that arbitration too.

 

[SkywayFO]

And the portions of the other groups' CBAs that say the same with respect to them (us) mean what? RJET has entered into multiple transactions making them counter-party to several CBAs. The IBT/RAH CBA is but one, and has no more force than any other. I'd assert that it even has less relevance than the more recently affirmed FAPA CBA (inclusive of LOA 39). New 320s have come onto Frontier property since the transaction and are being flown by FAPA pilots. Why would that change? The C series falls under our CBA and will likely be flown by FAPA pilots - if it ever exists.

Anyway a breech of your Scope section is a minor grievance (not a major grievance that you are allowed to strike for) as defined by the RLA and NMB. Follow the grievance process when it happens. Odds are, given the IBT's track record, you'll lose that arbitration too.

The "new" 320 you are speaking of were prior orders pre RAH merger. Once those dry up things get a little more interesting. My whole point with all of this is we have to get the new list, how ever it ends up, implimented and a joint contract done asap. We have to avoid the whipsaw, or we all are screwed. Lawyers and managment will be the only one getting anything out of all of this deal. None of us should want that. Think logically about things in a whipsaw who ends up with short stick? The more expensive party...So lets get things done and get our share, all of our share. One pilot group is the only way we have a chance period.

 

[F9 Driver]

The "new" 320 you are speaking of were prior orders pre RAH merger. Once those dry up things get a little more interesting. My whole point with all of this is we have to get the new list, how ever it ends up, implimented and a joint contract done asap. We have to avoid the whipsaw, or we all are screwed. Lawyers and managment will be the only one getting anything out of all of this deal. None of us should want that. Think logically about things in a whipsaw who ends up with short stick? The more expensive party...So lets get things done and get our share, all of our share. One pilot group is the only way we have a chance period.

Say what you will but, the 320s were bought by RJET after the transaction.

I don't know if you actually believe that multiple lists = whipsaw. If so, you are missing the enormous downside to a joint CBA for FAPA pilots. Single carrier status does nothing to prevent whipsaw. It actually sets the stage for the cheapest way for RJET *to whipsaw* us against one another. It just works out better for you.

How big a carrot do you think WH would need to dangle in front of the IBT EMB pilots to get 51% of the combined list to undo the QOL we've created over 15+ years at Frontier? IBT leadership's setting of expectations for your next contract has been non-existent at best. You think you are going to get Frontier / JetBlue 190 rates and work rules? From the starting point of your current CBA do you think you are going to get anything other than a POS regional contract? With IBT 357 negotiating against RJET? Not likely.

Keeping the work groups and contracts separate may leave a chance for whipsaw on the table, but single carrier and representation by this "Lord of the Flys" RAH IBT group assures that it will be done - to Frontier pilots by RAH IBT pilots. The only bright spot is that you can't vote away any protections (fences) established by the arbitrator in the SLI.

 

[runwayjockey]

Say what you will but, the 320s were bought by RJET after the transaction.

I don't know if you actually believe that multiple lists = whipsaw. If so, you are missing the enormous downside to a joint CBA for FAPA pilots. Single carrier status does nothing to prevent whipsaw. It actually sets the stage for the cheapest way for RJET *to whipsaw* us against one another. It just works out better for you.

How big a carrot do you think WH would need to dangle in front of the IBT EMB pilots to get 51% of the combined list to undo the QOL we've created over 15+ years at Frontier? IBT leadership's setting of expectations for your next contract has been non-existent at best. You think you are going to get Frontier / JetBlue 190 rates and work rules? From the starting point of your current CBA do you think you are going to get anything other than a POS regional contract? With IBT 357 negotiating against RJET? Not likely.

Keeping the work groups and contracts separate may leave a chance for whipsaw on the table, but single carrier and representation by this "Lord of the Flys" RAH IBT group assures that it will be done - to Frontier pilots by RAH IBT pilots. The only bright spot is that you can't vote away any protections (fences) established by the arbitrator in the SLI.

How do you Whipsaw single carrier status?

 

[F9 Driver]

Senior vs. junior. Airbus vs. EMB. Wide body vs. narrow body. Captains vs. FOs. MKE vs. DEN. "The senior guys screwed the junior guys" has been heard everywhere.