Replacing the 727 at FedEx

[hydroflyer]

Can anyone tell me who will be operating these new t-props for fedex?

I know of Empire and Mountain Air Cargo.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

From the propaganda DVD the company sent out a month or so ago...

737's and 757's are the 'logical' choice replacements, but the company only averages 2 flight hours a day on the 727 so at this point there is no reason to park them. The -100's are gone as of the summer of 2007 but as far as the -200's are concerned there are no overriding reasons to park them yet. On the horizon the Stage 4 noise requirement is showing its ugly head as are the emission standards. Ultimately one or both of these things will cause the demise of the Boeing. The video even mentioned the investigation of a re-engine option.

Personally I hope they keep 'em as long as possible; I'd love to pull gear on them until I retire. Nice airplane, simple, fast, easy to operate AND it employs a third pilot. Nothing better than telling ATC that you're 'slant alpha'.

 

[TheBaron]

From the propaganda DVD the company sent out a month or so ago...

Would that be the same DVD they sent out around Christmas labeled 'Electronic Flight Bag"? I guess time does fly when you're having fun.
Seems they also said the 727 would be here at least through 2012...or maybe I dreamed that.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

Would that be the same DVD they sent out around Christmas labeled 'Electronic Flight Bag"? I guess time does fly when you're having fun.
Seems they also said the 727 would be here at least through 2012...or maybe I dreamed that.

Time flies at this place even if you aren't having fun. Yeah I guess it was around Christmas, I just didn't watch it until recently...mainly because it said Electronic Flight Bag on it.

I think the 2012 thing is correct, but I think they'll keep the airframes longer if they can. No reason to get rid of them. Well that is until the Boeing or Airbus lobby convinces the government that they're too loud or too smokey!

 

[Capt1124]

I'm far from an expert on their business but I don't think Fedex will have much need to replace the 727s for some time. They were paid off a long time ago and a lot of these planes fly less than 4 hours a day, so the operating efficiencies of a new plane don't have the same value they do with a passenger operation that flies 12 hours a day.

Interesting comment about the 737 center fuel tank limitation. The 727 floor load limits went away after a couple of years of the feds wanting to reduce them to 3000# per position. I'll bet Fred's pull in DC had a lot to do with that.

 

[Beertini]

Quick question.....with all the hiring lately at FedEx has anyone brought up the possible overstaffing that may come up if FedEx gets rid of the 727 and replaces it with a 2 man airplane? Just curious if it is a concern. Thanks.

I asked that very question to one of the Big Cheeses that came to our indoc class when I was a noob. He said that if a two seat 727 replacement showed up on the ramp 'tomorrow' the company would still be 130 guys short.

Beertini

 

[time builder]

Interesting comment about the 737 center fuel tank limitation. The 727 floor load limits went away after a couple of years of the feds wanting to reduce them to 3000# per position. I'll bet Fred's pull in DC had a lot to do with that.

The fuel tank load limitation in the Ameristar 737 was 5000 lbs JetA in the center tank, reducing the total capacity from 34000 to 24000. In short, you just lost about 1.5, maybe 2 hours of endurance in cruise.

 

[Groundpounder]

Isn't Kitty Hawk flying cargo B733's? How are they working out?

 

[stupidpilot]

I've seen Ameristar run cargo in 737's, and they had to drop 10,000 lbs. out of the center fuel tank capacity. They just don't hold nearly as much weight as the 727's.
My bet is that we see more regional hubs taking A300's and DC10's, the other cities will be connected by ATR flights from the regional hubs.

That's probably because Ameritar's 737's are 200's.

 

[dee48eal]

fedex will buy anything if its cheap and plentiful. the atrs are being flown by the same folks that fly the other feeders - its all about the $

fedex longtimer

 

[Superpilot92]

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0000480/L/

then they are going old school

 

[Tomct]

Talked with a friend of mine who's dad is a Senior Captain at FedEx. He said that they would LOVE the 757, but they would have to get new ground equipement....loaders? The lift would definately improve with that bad@ss mama jama, but who knows. For size, there is NOTHING that can compare to the 757! It can carry a mother load and have few if any limitations as far as weight restrictions etc. Only time will tell!

 

[EuroWheenie]

Tomct

Talked with a friend of mine who's dad is a Senior Captain at FedEx. He said that they would LOVE the 757, but they would have to get new ground equipement....loaders? The lift would definately improve with that bad@ss mama jama, but who knows. For size, there is NOTHING that can compare to the 757! It can carry a mother load and have few if any limitations as far as weight restrictions etc. Only time will tell!

Right, well that would be for the production freighter ... which is no longer in production. Outside of the Brown Brigade there is a total or 4 PF's flying around, and none are for sale. UPS are not exactly looking at selling theirs either.

That leaves you with the SF (or BCF as they're called these days). Our lot got 34 of the things, and we are indeed limited! We've got 2 different MTOW's, 93 and 99 tons. Max payload is never more than 28 tons, which on a 99t aeroplane you can carry for around 3.5 hours. However, as with FedEx we're mainly limited by the volume. Although the 75 can load upwards of 11 tons in the bellies, it's just never used. For one, it'll take too bloody long to load and off-load. Secondly, once you've loaded 20 tons on the maindeck, well, there's not much more to play with. Sure, you could technically speaking load around 8 more tons there, but we ain't got 2 hour turn-arounds in the express business.

As bang for the buck goes, the A321 would make much more sense. 13 positions upstairs and the option of contairizing the bellies. Much leighter than the 757 too, and not much in the way of volumetric difference.

Don't get me wrong now, the 757 is a fine aeroplane. It's just that the A321 will do 90% of what a 757 can, but at 60% of the costs. Which is also the reason why the A321 can be bought brand new today, whereas the 757 can't. Our outfit was seriously considering the A321 around 8 years ago. But there weren't too many available second hand, and those who were available was rather on the expensive side. Brand new was never an option for us.

In case you're wondering who "we" are, well, there's only one integrator who's not based in Atlanta, and operates 757s.

 

[big_al]

if the A321 is such a great option, how come there have never been any in service?

 

[time builder]

Tomct



...Although the 75 can load upwards of 11 tons in the bellies, it's just never used. For one, it'll take too bloody long to load and off-load. Secondly, once you've loaded 20 tons on the maindeck, well, there's not much more to play with. Sure, you could technically speaking load around 8 more tons there, but we ain't got 2 hour turn-arounds in the express business.

As bang for the buck goes, the A321 would make much more sense. 13 positions upstairs and the option of contairizing the bellies. Much leighter than the 757 too, and not much in the way of volumetric difference.

Don't get me wrong now, the 757 is a fine aeroplane. It's just that the A321 will do 90% of what a 757 can, but at 60% of the costs. Which is also the reason why the A321 can be bought brand new today, whereas the 757 can't. Our outfit was seriously considering the A321 around 8 years ago.

I'm not a huge Airbus fan, but this guy could be on to something. Also along the lines of the belly loading, remember that the A320 family is equipped for cans in the belly (I believe that's why they consider it a widebody).

Doing 90% of what the 757 can sounds a little rosy for cargo ops, is that a volumetric figure? Are you saying that because the 321 holds around 180 PAX where the 757 holds a little over 200? We're talking cargo here, you need payload, not just volume. I'll have to research the numbers.