Renewing my CFI?

[avbug]

There is no ambiguity at all, no grey area, and no room for confusion. The regulation, repeatedly stated here, is crystal clear, even without the letter of interpretation or legal opinion.

Is there some confusion that a practical test for the flight instructor certificate, which is not a pilot certificate, counts for a flight review (no such thing as a "BFR")? None.

It may be "counted" for the hour of ground required in a flight review, in accordance with 61.56. That's it.

If an examiner is willing to sign off for completion of a flight review, then it's up to the examiner to take the responsibility to provide a specific endorsement stating that a flight review was conducted.

Of it's own accord, the practical test for the flight instructor certificate does not take the place of a flight review. There is nothing gray about it.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Splitting hairs I see. You just said the same thing I did - just in a different way.

I'll say it again - YOU ARE CORRECT

The "gray area" that I was alluding to was the OMMISSION of the fact that the DE needed to give the appropriate endorsement if the CFI ride was to count as a flight review also. Some folks don't realize that - hence, it's a gray area (not all the facts) for them.

Maybe I didn't use the "best" choice of words - but I meant what you said!

I am bowing humbly.

 

[aldassy]

Be careful with the MasterCFI method of renewal. I started three months prior to expiration applying to NAFI for the master designation. A month before exp. I got it. After the run around at the FSDO for three weeks, they decided not to recognize that as a means to renew (its not written in the regs so it must not be true) I showed them the website and other material I had from NAFI, but no dice. It expired and now I have to take the practical. I'm not too excited about spending another $500 to take a test that I feel I've already passed. Had I known about the rundown at the FSDO I would have done a FIRC long ago.
BTW, at the last minute I tried renewal by the 4 out of 5 passes on students practical tests. The FSDO's record did not match mine. Be prepared to bring EVERYTHING showing who you signed off, different people give you different answers on what is acceptable proof. Very frustrating.

 

[Toy Soldier]

aldassy

Sorry to hear about your Master CFI renewal problem! Mine went so smooth in Atlanta that it scared me!

1. Didn't NAFI give you a copy of the FAA letter stating that they would in fact accept the "graduation certificate" as a renewal?

2. Did you let NAFI know of the problem and what did they say?

It sounds like that FSDO has some issues anyway......

 

[cvsfly]

Welcome to the wonderful world of FSDOs. Not all are created equal and some think they are more equal than others. Ask 10 different FSDOs a question and you are likely to get 10 different answers. Ask for it in writing (which is a sure way to piss them off).

 

[avbug]

Why ask at all? You should already know and understand that the FSDO CANNOT give you an interpretation. They don't have the authority. An inspector can give you an opinion which carries no more weight than mine or yours...but it is not defensible, nor binding. Were that opinion written, it would be no more binding.

Does it matter that you would get ten different answers? Why be lazy and approach the FSDO to get information? Why not put in the effort to research and know the answer, instead of relying on the advice of a person who is employed by the government because he couldn't make it in the private sector?

Folks who are foolish enough to approach the FSDO level for answers to questions deserve what they get. Folks who are foolish enough to live by the advice or opinions they take from the FSDO level, when it's well known that such advice or information is unofficial and unauthoritative, deserve whatever befalls them. It's really just self-punishment for the lazy.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

A Squared excellent post! I was searching through the archives for this subject; thought I’d bring it back to life might help someone else.

 

[JAFI]

Avbug, you wrote:

"relying on the advice of a person who is employed by the government because he couldn't make it in the private sector?"

I take exception to that remark. I work with many inspectors who got tired of going bankrupt "in the private Sector". It is hard to explain to the bank that the mortgage payment isn't going to come for a while because the "glory" of aviation isn't paying off well this decade. Many inspectors are in the job because they are trying to make a positive difference. You would not like someone to say that you are lesser because you never made it as an Airline Pilot.

To others:

As for the remarks that you will get 10 answers from 10 FSDO's, as Avbug pointed out that Inspectors do not give legal interpitations, you get those from FAA legal, in writing from a written request in the form of a letter.

As for a "Master CFI" renewal, I have not seen any FAA memo about using this as a renewal, no one has asked me to look into this yet. But with the crap I get from some pilots, I'm not in a big hurry.

 

[avbug]

I said private sector, and spoke not a whit about airline flying. Truth is that there are very few airline pilots that light my pipe either...I've met precious few that impressed me.

In all fairness, I know certain in the FAA that are qualified individuals, and whom have an adequate background. I know many more who do not, who are bureaucrats who are easily recognized as FAA because they're the only ones at the airport who's socks don't match.

I've known some darned fine individuals who were a credit to the agency, and to the industry. I've known some others who were not. It's of those individuals whom I spoke.

 

[Cosmo1999]

I still say you can use the CFI checkride to extend your BFR. It is not a pilot proficency checkride however it is a checkride for an operating privledge. Tell me how being able to teach is not an operating privledge. That letter was issued for the east coast region but does not apply to the west coast to the best of my knowledge. So if your in the west coast region its still a gray area. If your on the east coast just have anyone sign the endorsement. If you just go up and fly for fun with a buddy you can count that or have the DE sign the endorsement for you after the checkride.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Tell me how being able to teach is not an operating privledge.

Tell me how a CFI sitting in the right seat with no medical certifciate, not having had a flight review in 12 years, giving a flight review to a fully current pilot =is= a pilot operating privilege.

 

[A Squared]

I still say you can use the CFI checkride to extend your BFR.

Yeah, not surprised, there's always *someone* who refuses to get it, even after it's been spelled out in excruciating detail ..... you don't happen to post as CFIrob on another board do you?

It is not a pilot proficency checkride however it is a checkride for an operating privledge.

Fascinating, truly fascinating. You concede that it is not a pilot proficiency checkrice, yet you insist that it counts...WTF Over? Read the regulation a little more carefully, it must be a "pilot proficiency checkride" ... it says "...pilot proficenecy checkride...*for* a pilot certificate, rating or operating privilege..." It doesn't say a "...pilot proficency check ride *or*.... checkride for pilot certifcate..etc." If it's not a pilot proficency checkride, it clearly doesn't count, and you agree that it's not a pilot proficiency checkride .... so what are we arguing about?

Even if we ignore your monumental illogic about the pilot proficency checkride, your insistence that it's an operating privilege makes no sense either.

Tell us exactly what operating privilege do you get with an instructor's certificate? Before you answer, go take a look in Part 1 for the definition of *operate*

Can you operate bigger or faster or more complex airplanes than you would otherwise on the merits of your pilot license?

Can you operate as an aircrew member in a certificated operation?

Does your instructor certificate allow you to oeprate anything, anything at all? Nope, not even a shopping cart.

Instructing isn't *operating* Take away your instructor';s certificates and you can still operate everything you could before. Take away your pilot certificate but leave you with the instructor certificate and you can't operate anything at all.

Go take a look at 61.193 which specifies the privileges of an instructor certificate. in a nutshell, an instructor may "give training and endorsements". period, that's all the privileges you get with an instructor certificate. There are no operating privileges.

Originally posted by Cosmo1999 Tell me how being able to teach is not an operating privledge. [/B]

OK, since you insist: instructing is not operating. A pilot certificate allows you to operate aircraft, an instructor certificate allows you to instruct students and endorse logbooks.

Originally posted by Cosmo1999 That letter was issued for the east coast region but does not apply to the west coast to the best of my knowledge. So if your in the west coast region its still a gray area. [/B]

Right, you want to bet your certificate on that? Enforcements are decided by NTSB administrative law judges. The NTSB ALJ is reqired to defer to FAA legal interpretations. There's nothing that says an ALJ can ignore a Legal Counsel interpretation if it was issued by an office in a different part of the country. If htere's an interpretation, the NTSB decides your case according to the interpretation. Now, If you could find an interpretation issued by the Western Region office of legal counsel which said a CFI ride counts as a flight review, you might have a grey area. In such case, I suppose that the Chief Counsel would have to issue a ruling. But, there is no conflicting interpretation. ....so you got nothing, nada. It's unlikely that there ever *will* be a conflicting interpretation because the one we have is based solidly in the words of the regulation. The regulation says "pilot checkride" for "pilot certificate, rating or operating privilege" and an instructor certificate is none of the above.

We've got an official interpretation from the FAA's legal counsel which tells us exactly what the regulation means. You are not free to ignore it because you live in a differnet part of the country, remember the regulations apply across the country.

 

[zonker]

I said private sector, and spoke not a whit about airline flying. Truth is that there are very few airline pilots that light my pipe either...I've met precious few that impressed me.

In all fairness, I know certain in the FAA that are qualified individuals, and whom have an adequate background. I know many more who do not, who are bureaucrats who are easily recognized as FAA because they're the only ones at the airport who's socks don't match.

I've known some darned fine individuals who were a credit to the agency, and to the industry. I've known some others who were not. It's of those individuals whom I spoke.

Maybe if you had some respect for others they might return the same.

Come down from the ivory tower and chat with us mortal aviators sometime, Lindbergh.