Relief Or Cruise Pilots

[Markm1811]

Can someone please explain more about Relief pilots. what requirements, min times etc ?. Are they even legal in the US. Any info greatly appreciated.

Midnight Brit
Telling pilots what to do 4 nights a week.

 

[FN FAL]

You might find more information if you do a google search for the "Aviation Work Rules and Pilot Relief Act of 1994"

 

[81Horse]

Can someone please explain more about Relief pilots. what requirements, min times etc ?. Are they even legal in the US. Any info greatly appreciated.

There is no relief in sight for pilots in the US.

But, since you asked a serious question: cruise/relief pilots are used by some carriers when an augmented crew is required for long flights. Those carriers assign regular line pilots to those positions; each airline would have its own way of assigning or bidding, however.

Cruise/relief piloting doesn't exist here as an option outside the normal career path. Does it in the UK? I had no idea.

 

[XTW]

But, since you asked a serious question:

It's not a serious question, and I can't believe you people humor this adolescent.

X

 

[typhoonpilot]

It's not a serious question, and I can't believe you people humor this adolescent.

X

It looks like a serious question to me. Maybe that's just my gullibility showing through.

So if it is a serious question the answer depends on the country. In the States there really isn't a separate category for cruise/relief pilots. Generally most major airlines in the States type their international first officers so that they can act as a pilot from the left seat. A typical crew complement for a flight between 8 and 12 hours would be 1 Captain and 2 First Officers. Both of the first officers would be capable of flying, in cruise, from the left seat. Divide the total flying time, or time in cruise, by three and that would be the time that ech pilot would get for rest in the back. On flight over 12 hours there may be 2 Captains and 2 First Officers or perhaps 1 Captain and 3 First Officers.

Outside of the United States some airlines employ starting pilots as Second Officers. In this case all they do for their first few years is in-flight relief. They generally don't get to take off and land. In this case their entry requirements are a bit lower than a typical U.S. major airline new hire.


Typhoonpilot

 

[NoPax]

I believe they use cruise/relief pilots on Cathay Pacific. The position is also refered to as a Second Officer.

The SO takes the airplane while the Captain or FO rests on the long haul flights, and won't be in the left or right seat below 10000. I knew a former flight instructor at a place I worked who went on to do that for them, as a 'foot-in-the-door'. She had about 400 hours TT I think when she was hired - also spoke 3 languages etc. etc.

 

[mcjohn]

VEEERY interesting. How did she gain access to such a position? Did she have a connection on the inside or would she actually have applied at Cathy Pacific with such low time.

 

[C601]

A friend of mine who was in the came class as myself was a SO for Virgin Atlantic on the A340, he was hired with a CAA Frozen ATPL and 500hrsTT.

3 weeks on 2 weeks off 1 week standby.

 

[typhoonpilot]

I believe they use cruise/relief pilots on Cathay Pacific. The position is also refered to as a Second Officer.

The SO takes the airplane while the Captain or FO rests on the long haul flights, and won't be in the left or right seat below 10000. I knew a former flight instructor at a place I worked who went on to do that for them, as a 'foot-in-the-door'. She had about 400 hours TT I think when she was hired - also spoke 3 languages etc. etc.

This from the Cathay website:

Minimum Requirements All Second Officer applicants must meet the following minimum requirements:

1. An ICAO Airline Transport Pilot's License (ATPL) (obtained without exemptions) or ICAO Commercial Pilot's License (CPL) (obtained without exemptions) with passes in all ATPL ground examinations
2. A Valid Multi-Engine Instrument Rating
3. A minimum of 1000 hours fixed wing (preference will be given to applicants with turbine or multi-engine experience)
4. Experience commensurate with age
5. A current Class One Medical
6. Fluent spoken & written English

Current competitive requirements are reportedly around 3000 total time with experience in jet or turboprop aircraft.


TP

 

[Flying Illini]

How long do you fly as a second officer before you are able to upgrade to first officer? Is it flt time based or seniority based or both? Are you even able to log much time as a SO?

 

[FlyWithSean]

I have a friend who is really looking at the SO position. I just dont know what kind of time this would equate to for the future or how you could even stay current.

No takeoff or landings, no approaches, and I am sure at the altitudes they are flying relief absolutely no actual

I would love to hear from anyone about what they think.

 

[Markm1811]

Thanks For The Info,,,

hey guys,

thks for the info. XTW.. not sure why you would not take it seriously.. Sadly not an adolescent but a dX'r with a regional.. what is your issue. We were discussing this in the soc and I posted a serious question.. Maybe you need to question yourself !!!

Midnight Brit.
on ACARS 4 nights a week..

 

[NoPax]

TyphoonPilot - I know the minimums are 1000 hours now, but this was a few years back, during the trouble that Cathay Pacific went through. I remember she got her CFI, instructed for a few months and went to the interview in Hong Kong.

I also remember she stayed current by going to simulator checks, and the SO position was perhaps for a year or so or until she could upgrade to FO, whatever those minumums were at the time. She was based in Hong Kong.

As for 'what use is this time' - no approaches, no actual (very little actual in jets anyway), and no takeoffs and landings - its very useful, its a foot in the door in a very stable airline that probably isn't going away for some time.

 

[typhoonpilot]

When you are over the ocean at night with no moon and no horizon, how would you log it ? When you are over the Bay of Bengal at any time of year, day or night, you can count on about 25% of the time being actual. I log way more actual that I used to in the States.

From what I read elsewhere the upgrade from S.O. to Junior F.O. at Cathay runs around 3 years. They stay current by flying the simulator.


TP

 

[Hawker rider]

If you go into a company as an SO it's not a matter of fact what "quality the time would be" because those positions plan on you being with the company for a long time. So you will upgrade to captain with that company when time comes.

That's the deal they have you as an SO and they don't expect you to go look for employment elsewhere.

 

[Hawker rider]

I want to add the same to the "logging actual"

It does not matter! once you sit inside an airline like that it has no value how much more actual time you are going to log, once you have a 777 typerating with 1000 hours in the left seat do you think anybody would frown on your actual-IFR time?

I didn't think so

 

[neil armstrong]

In Europe people dont ask for "actual" time.
As soon as i started flying here i stoped longing it!
How long you will be a coco depends on thje airline ,i know a guy in KLM who is already a coco for more then 4 years! but he doesnt want to upgrade this way he sits in a firstclass seat most of the time is highest seniority and gets the best chance to chat up the cabin crew before the make it to where ever they are going.
they stay current in the sim with extra sim sessions ,most of them (at KLM) come from there own flight school and have maybe 250/300 hrs.

Neil

 

[Hawker rider]

I've heard that at KLM it is possible to be in the CoCo seat (SO) for up to eight years. Normally they move on from Coco to FO 737. not too long ago they had to move people from Coco to 737 Co-pilot and result was that the F/O's whose place they had to take had to go back again to Coco!!