Regulation, anyone?

[Guitar Guy]

CopilotDoug - why would re-regulation of the industry lead to a bigger paycheck for pilots or any other worker bee at the airlines? Just because the airlines might make more money, why does that mean that they'd share the windfall with the "common man"?

Maybe a federally-mandated minimum wage specifically for airline pilots is a better idea. :erm:

 

[172driver]

You get what you negotiate for, not what you think you are worth.

There are tens of thousands of pilots in this country who have not been allowed to use the leverage they have to negotiate fairly. Having a contract imposed on you by the court with no right to self help is not a negotiation, it's an ultimatum.

 

[VABB]

There are tens of thousands of pilots in this country who have not been allowed to use the leverage they have to negotiate fairly. Having a contract imposed on you by the court with no right to self help is not a negotiation, it's an ultimatum.

To the best of my knowledge, the only contracts that come to mind under this scenario are the ones at carriers who have filed chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. I say to the best of my knowledge because I am honestly not aware of any other scenario where there has been a case of the court system imposing sanctions or otherwise on the pilot group.

UPS and FedEx come to mind as two carriers who were able to negotiate their contracts without any court involvement or ultimatums from the courts. Guys can debate all day about whether or not the contracts were what the pilot groups wanted, but the fact of the matter is that both groups negotiated and voted in their current contracts. i.e., what they have is what they negotiated.

The legacy pax airlines are another story. When 4 of them filed chapter 11, all bets were off and the labor groups had a completely different animal to deal with. It's not that it was unfair, it was that the bankruptcy court was now calling the shots.

But, the unions still had some choices they could make. When the mechanics at one airline walked the picket line, ALPA could have said the pilots were going to walk too. That would have put the longevity of the carrier at risk, but it also would have given both groups a lot of leverage.

Most concessions were not just handed down from the courts either. The unions still had to vote on them, with pensions being one exception.

But in the end, supply and demand will play a huge role in salaries. As mentioned previously, there are many, many pilots who are willing to take flying jobs at very low wages and not do much about it. As long as that pipeline still exists, management is going to have a large upper-hand.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Would it be a bad thing if only half the pilots out there would have seen the inside of a cockpit if it made their jobs more stable and paid better? I don't think regulation is a be-all-end-all solution. As PCL128 said, work towards a middle ground. I am pro-pilot all the way, but it seems like the field is deffinitely leaning in favor of management. Our Unions have been rendered impotent by Bankruptcy Judges...the people with the money are making the rules here and it just seems to me that the worker will be left by the wayside. I just meant to stir the pot and get people thinking about different approaches. GuitarGuy, maybe a federally-mandated pay scale is a better idea?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Would it be a bad thing if only half the pilots out there would have seen the inside of a cockpit if it made their jobs more stable and paid better?

As long is you'll be happy in either half.

, maybe a federally-mandated pay scale is a better idea?

Again, this is a pipe dream. Why should Congress or the public care what pilots make? Lood how long it took for a raise to he Federal minimum wage.

 

[ex j-41]

News Flash!!!!

We are already regulated. The FAA is all around us.

What we have is managements wet dream. Just enough regulation to ensure CEO's make millions and workers make poverty.

If you want 100% regulation then all airlines should become Southwest.
THey offer limited service to small communities, yes low fares but they wouldn't be doing a flight if it wasn't making money.
If we had one airline and it worked on the Southwest principle then we would have the federal goverment stepping in regulating the industry.
Why? Because Southwest doesn't serve small communities. This country needs flights in and out of Norfolk, OGS, BFN.
If US Air and Delta etc...pulled the plug on the small cities then you will have your wish of 100% regulation. Till then...

 

[172driver]

The legacy pax airlines are another story. When 4 of them filed chapter 11, all bets were off and the labor groups had a completely different animal to deal with. It's not that it was unfair, it was that the bankruptcy court was now calling the shots.

And you don't see that as unfair? A single judge, with the primary goal of serving the creditors, is now the dictator of the pay and work rules for the majority of airline pilots in the country...though they had little to do with the company being in that position.

Most concessions were not just handed down from the courts either. The unions still had to vote on them, with pensions being one exception.

Yeah, they were voted on, with the companies and the court ready to impose something worse if the vote didn't come out in favor. Not exactly a free vote.

Your other points are well made. ALPA has created much of this mess for themselves through a complete lack of national solidarity.