Regional to Fractional Advice?

[DrewBlows]

I'm currently a First Officer at a bankrupt regional airline and am considering a position at a small fractional company (see my thread on Northern Jet Management). I'm at my second regional, with one bankruptcy, one furlough, and one threatened furlough (long story) under my belt. Since my past career decisions have gotten me this far I figured I'd ask for some insight and advice.

I have some thoughts on fractional companies and corporate aviation in general and wonder if those thoughts are accurate. First, it's more difficult to get into corporate aviation if you go to the airlines first. Second, it's easier to get another corporate aviation job if you already have one (kind of goes with my first thought). Third, if you switch companies you don't necessarily have to start on the bottom (like the airline seniority system).

Now my situation. I currently commute (one leg, three hours, door-to-door) to sit reserve, a situation that is not likely to change any time soon (assuming my company is still in business). If I were to be offered and accept the job at Northern Jet, I would have to relocate, but would still be a two hour drive from my family. The pay would be comparable but I would fly less. Days off are similar. I would enjoy the diversity of flying and interaction with clients. Overall I think my quality of life would improve, by virtue of I wouldn't be commuting twice a week.

So, is this a good career move? Or should I stay where I'm at to build time faster (again assuming my company stays in business)? I guess I'm trying to figure out what is better, building time or getting a foot in the door (so to speak) in the corporate aviation world. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[johnsonrod]

I'm currently a First Officer at a bankrupt regional airline and am considering a position at a small fractional company (see my thread on Northern Jet Management). I'm at my second regional, with one bankruptcy, one furlough, and one threatened furlough (long story) under my belt. Since my past career decisions have gotten me this far I figured I'd ask for some insight and advice.

I have some thoughts on fractional companies and corporate aviation in general and wonder if those thoughts are accurate. First, it's more difficult to get into corporate aviation if you go to the airlines first. Second, it's easier to get another corporate aviation job if you already have one (kind of goes with my first thought). Third, if you switch companies you don't necessarily have to start on the bottom (like the airline seniority system).

Now my situation. I currently commute (one leg, three hours, door-to-door) to sit reserve, a situation that is not likely to change any time soon (assuming my company is still in business). If I were to be offered and accept the job at Northern Jet, I would have to relocate, but would still be a two hour drive from my family. The pay would be comparable but I would fly less. Days off are similar. I would enjoy the diversity of flying and interaction with clients. Overall I think my quality of life would improve, by virtue of I wouldn't be commuting twice a week.

So, is this a good career move? Or should I stay where I'm at to build time faster (again assuming my company stays in business)? I guess I'm trying to figure out what is better, building time or getting a foot in the door (so to speak) in the corporate aviation world. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I am working at a reasonably stable low-cost regional based in the Midwest. I, too, am looking to the fractionals and 135 charter for opportunities. From what I have seen, the fractional business provides a great career opportunity IF you work for the "right" fractional companies. Now, which company is the "right" company is up for debate.

NJA has the best contract, it is unionized and it offers the most diverse fleet - everything from the Citation Ultra to the Citation X to the BBJ. Flexjet, from my research, seems to have a less favorable schedule (do not offer 7/7 schedule which would be my preference) but it has a fantastic fleet of aircraft (including the CL300 - my favorite aircraft out there). Citationshares has a great fleet, it has the widest variety of domiciles (a huge plus if you commute) but it does not have a seniority system (this results in various debates on this board related to meritocracy and upgrading). Flight Options was at one time "the place to be" but it has become a hostile environment and furloughs may take place due to a fleet rationalization effort. Flight Options, however, recently voted for unionization. Avantair is a relatively new fractional operator and it operates the Piaggio Avanti (P180) turboprop in a fast-growing fleet.

Personally, if you are looking at the fractional business, I would focus your efforts on NJA, Flexjet, Citationshares and Avantair for the time being. All four appear to have "staying power" unlike smaller operators which may not have the scale necessary to survive into the long term. All three are hiring at the moment. If commuting is the big issue, Citationshares might be the best choice given their wide variety of domiciles. NJA and Flexjet offer very few domicile choices (NJA may now only offer LAX as a domicile).

That's my $0.02 for now based on my initial research. I am sure the frax guys on the board can add a lot more.

 

[DrewBlows]

Thanks for the reply. Would going to a small fractional furthur my career (assuming I want to go to a larger fractional or corporate outfit). I don't want to make a change for the sake of change, and my previous career decisions turned out to be less than steller, so again any thoughts are appreciated. Keep 'em comming.

 

[CapnVegetto]

There's only one bankrupt regional out there.....Mesaba. Run like hell. Fracs will give you more money, better benefits, better QOL, you name it.

If your profile is correct, you don't have enough time for NJA. You need at least 2500 hours and it is NOT waivable. You also HAVE to have an ATP. It's in their owner contracts that their pilots will have at least that much time. Most of the fracs are hard and fast on the mins for that specific reason. CS requires less total time (2000 hours) but you have to have 1500 multi engine hours. They won't even talk to you if you don't.

I don't know much about Flexjet, except that there's a lot of bitching that goes on here about them. I think they're currently in the middle of a union drive. There's also FLOPS of course, but I'm not sure they're even hiring.

CS would be a good pick for you, with all the domicile choices. However, you CAN'T commute. You have to have an established address within 120 minutes (driving time) of one of their bases. NJA doesn't give 2 flips where you live, but you have to be at their domicile for your shift, and you're on your own getting there. Plus, the choices are really limited.

Avantair seems like a decent place with a quick upgrade, but domicile choices are limited, and there seems to be a lot of bitching about them here too.

Anyway, there's your options. Best of luck to ya! You might wanna look at Chautaqua right now too......seems like a quick upgrade possibiility there with them getting all the XJET flying.

 

[On Your Six]

Thanks for the reply. Would going to a small fractional furthur my career (assuming I want to go to a larger fractional or corporate outfit). I don't want to make a change for the sake of change, and my previous career decisions turned out to be less than steller, so again any thoughts are appreciated. Keep 'em comming.

My advice: avoid the small fractional player. Apply directly to NJA, CS, Flex and Avantair if you have the appropriate hours, etc. I have read that they are all hiring at the moment - so, don't delay if you are interested.

With your time on the CR7, you would probably enjoy the Challenger 300 at Flexjet. Look at Airlinepilotcentral.com for more info related to pay, fleet, domiciles (note the different domicile options among the frax), etc.

Good luck!

 

[DrewBlows]

My advice: avoid the small fractional player.

Why is that? Do you think I will have a harder time getting on with a larger fractional if I go to a small one first? Is the regional time as good as time at a small fractional (I would certainly accrue it faster where I'm at).

There's only one bankrupt regional out there.....Mesaba.

There's two, Comair was dragged into bankruptcy with Delta. I'm more than a little concerned with the flight attendent situation here, but am hesitant to jump ship unless I consider it a move up. I'm trying to figure out if this will be a move up or not.

Of course timing is an issue as well, I'd like to take a peek a year into the future and see what it brings, but I was not blessed with that ability. Chances are Comair will stay in business, but not grow at all, which means no upgrade for a long time. That's fine if I were able to get on with some place better having no PIC time. So is Northern Jet Management better than Comair? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Thanks for the comments.

Cheers.

 

[mainiac]

Similar situation as you, left Comair last fall, didn't like the uncertainty, and got the RIF letter in Oct. Thanks to around 200 others like me who quit, furloughs at Comair seemed to stay pretty small. I just interviewed and was hired by Avantair, very friendly and professional environment, quick upgrade to come, and 7.5/6.5 schedule. They have raised their mins lately, 2500 TT, 1000ME, recency in high speed A/C. If your profile is not up to date, and you've got the 2500, I'd send them a resume. NJ,CS, etc post 2500 as minimum, but 3-4K seem to be the norm for hire lately (since FlyI closed).
Avantair base policy is gateway cities (must be within 2 hrs of one) and they have recently expanded the list of cities.
I'm really looking forward to the schedule, the 7.5 on includes your flight to/from A/C you're meeting, so you start and finish at your home city. No more waiting on a s3 NRSA to get home the day after your midnight release after a 5 day trip!
Avantair seems like a good place to go and stay, big enough to keep going, and small enough to know people. Folks at the interview were very upbeat, friendly and optimistic about things to come. The negative posts I've seen here seem to come from the usual number of negative personalities, all saying the same thing over and over. Reminds me of the Regional forum sometimes!
PM if you want any further info.

 

[Cavpilot]

7.5/6.5 schedule?

Does that mean that you work all of day 7 and are sent home on day 8?

 

[mainiac]

Report time on day 1 is after 12 noon (duty that day is half day). If it's necessary to report for a flight before 12, you get half day of OT pay (150% of day rate)
You're airlined to your Airplane, finish your tour on day 8 by the end of duty day back at home gateway airport. They said that they are trying to get to 7/7 schedule as staffing allows it.

 

[Guitar Guy]

There's also FLOPS of course, but I'm not sure they're even hiring.

We rode to the hotel with a FLOPS crew a few nights ago on the west coast. They told us that the company had just put out a memo that FLOPS intends to reduce the pilot workforce through voluntary and involuntary furlough arrangements. Apparently FLOPS is "rightsizing" itself and is going to reduce the ranks of their pilots as well as reduce the amount of aircraft they operate. They are also apparently forcing pilots to take vacations when they aren't scheduled for them, as strange as that sounds. To top it off, apparently their flight attendants are going through even more major downsizing, too.