Regional guys -- Turbulance

[BlueCanoe]

Hey D-Bean...

don't let those "tuff guys" get to ya. They just haven't been there yet, or are just to stupid to get it, probably a little of both.

The first month I was employed as an "airline pilot" i was paired up with Capt. Psycho. No joke. I didn't know shi_t. i looked up to the capt. and figured they knew what they were doing. I was wrong. No matter what i said, the Capt. did the opposite just so he would'nt agree with me. Dispatch called and said they wanted to cancel a flight- the cap looked at the radar and asked me what I thought. I said "If we go, we are gonna die". Capt. said "I talked to the crew and we'll go". (It was spring and there was a squall line from Minnesota to texas.-a nasty one) So, there we were, looking for a place in the line to cross. there wasn't one, (today I would have turned around and landed...) but we continued on. I kept switching the radar on smaller and smaller range as we got closer. Well we slowed the plane down to rough penetration speed, something like 170K ?(SF3). Just before we entered the line, the buzzer was going off-overspeed-that's @250. We were way over that. Imagine a +100 or so outdraft... The auto pilot was on for this whole adventure. Plane is trying to hold altitude, but with +100 it tends to climb. (Saab ap is no joke) Ap trying to hold altitude so it pitches down = more speed. Capt. pulles "power levers" or whatever you want to call them. Well, we get inside the storm, MAJOR down draft, like we got hit with a sledge hammer. Now we are below selected altitude with power at idle...plane pitches up. (this all was in slow motion now) I look as AS 140 and decresing, pitch going past 25 up... I start yelling airspeed, airspeed... Fire wall the power levers...Long story short...(not really) A lot O sh_t went on after that...but we came thru the other side. (I actually made peace with the world during it). No damage to the AC except some of the patches on the de-icing boots were partially peeled off from the initial gust.

Point being, the AC can take alot more than you would believe-not that you should ever put yourself in that condition.

That being said, it was in a SAAB(tank), I don't think the EMB would have made it thru as well. SF3 has straight wing, and is slow, compared to to EMB with it's swept wing...

Next comes the wake. On down wind, @10K AC rolled 70 and pitched down 20-25. No warning. Most guys say they have hit wake, bounced around a little, and that was the extent of it. That does happen alot, not to bad, but respect the wake.

Ever Been sitting at the end of the runway, waiting to take off, and had a Ac land and then your plane shakes as some planes wake hit's you? I had just rotated and hit the wake of the AC that departed before me, was a few feet off the ground, my plane actually was pushed back down on the runway, guess that's why my SOP says gear up at 35 feet...

And then there is CAT.

flying along at FL270. Got my seat back, reading some "company approved materials". Bounce bounce, BOOM, don't really know what happened, it was so sudden. Temporary loss of control. Asked Center if there were any AC near me, nope. Out of no where. Now I know why all the knobs on the overhead are rounded off, had seat belt and shoulder harness fastened, but still hit overhead panel. Had blue juice in ceiling of lav too, not to mention all the drinks in the cabin dripping off the ceiling.

Not ment to scare you, just letting you know a little of what you will probably encounter some day. And thru all this the AC held up.

Now getting back to you're question about turbulence. (SP?) just giving you a little backround for credibility.

The ERJ has a stiff wing, which means you feel all the bumps. The best ride is sitting over the wing. sitting up front, you have the longest lever arm-which means you get the worst ride overall.

Now I've got a few problems with the autopilot in this ac. In certain situations it can cause a problem. It seems that in certain situations the ap is to slow to react. Meaning that it tries to react, but ends up amplifying the pitch inputs-result, pitch oscillates a little, but keeps going till its out of control. It feels like you are driving along a gravel road with a continous washboard, but just keeps getting worse and worse. solution. Just hold the yoke, no need to TCS it.

Also, when you get into the rough stuff, the ap, seems to over correct, making the ride worse. (pitch wise) once again, just click it off for a few...

As far as the AP kicking off, and leaving you nose down. No worries here. If it does kick off, (It happens) you got to remember the ac is hauling a_ss. there is no way it can suddenly just pitch down (think about it). roll, yeah, maybe, but not from cat.(roll no big deal, just roll out) Just ask yourself, how many AC burn in from turb? You have to really fu_k up to do that....

enough for now...

B

I'm not the CA he's talking about, but I'll vouch for him...That's why I love the guy, but the bitch won't ever call me back.

..how are the cuts healing?...

 

[temcgrew]

Chop is not turbulence, it is chop. Moderate chop is not quite to the level of light turbulence. So, if you are nervouse in any kind of chop then relax because your not even encountering turbulence yet.

 

[CJA]

This is just about the most unbelievable thread I have seen! Oh MY GOD! Turbulence! This is what happenns when people with NO experience are allowed in the cockpit (not flightdeck!) of an airliner. Go fly some POS freight dog through a thunderstorm. Then your "chop" or "turbulence" or whatever the hell it is will do nothing more than lull you to sleep!

 

[AWACoff]

UEJ500,
I would reccomend that you look up the definition of moderate chop in a current copy of the Airmans Information Manual. I only have my 2005 copy here at home but here is the 2005 definition of Moderate Chop:

Turbulence that is similar to Light Chop but of greater intensity. It causes rapid bumps or jolts without appreciable changes in aircraft altitude or attitude. The reaction inside the aircraft is that occupants feel definite strains against seat belts or shoulder straps. Unsecured objects are dislodged. Food service and walking are difficult.

Moderate Chop is moderate turbulence.

Chop is not turbulence, it is chop. Moderate chop is not quite to the level of light turbulence. So, if you are nervouse in any kind of chop then relax because your not even encountering turbulence yet.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

If it weren't for the sake of the passengers, I would rather fly in the turbulence.

 

[Nindiri]

Why?.

 

[temcgrew]

UEJ500,
I would reccomend that you look up the definition of moderate chop in a current copy of the Airmans Information Manual. I only have my 2005 copy here at home but here is the 2005 definition of Moderate Chop:

Turbulence that is similar to Light Chop but of greater intensity. It causes rapid bumps or jolts without appreciable changes in aircraft altitude or attitude. The reaction inside the aircraft is that occupants feel definite strains against seat belts or shoulder straps. Unsecured objects are dislodged. Food service and walking are difficult.

Moderate Chop is moderate turbulence.

The chart you are talking about has three Intensities of turbulence:
1. light
2. moderate
3. severe
4. extreme
then it breaks it down to how you should report it:

LIGHT:
Turbulence that momentarily causes slight, erratic changes in altitude and/or attitude (pitch, roll, yaw). Report as light turbulence or light CAT.

or​

Turbulence that causes slight, rapid and somewhat rhythmic bumpiness without appreciable changes in altitude or attitude. Report as light CHOP.​

MODERATE:
Turbulence that causes changes in altitude and/or attitude occurs but the aircraft remains in positive control at all times. It usually causes variations in

indicated airspeed. Report as moderate turbulence or moderate CAT.
or​

Turbulence that is similar to light CHOP but of greater intensity. It causes rapid bumps or jolts without appreciable changes in aircraft or attitude. Report as moderate CHOP​

The difference between TURBULENCE and CHOP has to do with aircraft attitude and altitude. If it disrupts it in any way it is turbulence, if it doesn't then it is simply chop.
chop in my opinion is not as bad as turbulence because of this


The joke is that if you have moderate chop, it should do nothing to the autopilot.
If moderate chop scares you, when it doesn't change the aircraft altitude or attitude, then what are you going to do when it does start to change?

You gotta know the difference before you start reporting it to ATC. I don't know how many times I've heard guys report moderate turbulence when it should be light turbulence or chop.
But I've never heard anyone combine the two together.

I guess I am not 100% comfortable with moderate chop turbulance in a jet yet.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Why?.

I enjoy it because smooth flights bore me.

 

[Nindiri]

True, some of those two hour legs over the same old terrain can get a little old.

 

[Flying-Corporal]

the cap looked at the radar and asked me what I thought. I said "If we go, we are gonna die".
B

A very amusing story.

I've flown with those "know everything FOs" who straight out of IOE will be ready to teach you how to fly an airplane. With their 700 hrs as a CFI they will have a story on any possible weather encounter that sounds too amazing to be true.

You didn't die after all, did you, sport?