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Regional FO's getting their ATP

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PA44Jockey

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Posts
444
I put this in this thread because it appears that the majority of people getting ATPs on their own are Regional FOs.

I'd like to hear about your experience with ALL ATPs. How well do you feel the supplement prepared you? Was it pretty much a muilti-commercial ride, but just to tighter standards?

All of the reviews on the ALL ATPs site are good ones (as to be expected), so I am looking for the more for the good, bad and the ugly.

Thanks
 
I saw a few guys fail their multi-ATP ride at ALL ATPs (one flew A320s). Its not a sure thing. Sometimes it depends on which location and who the examiner is. The guy who did my ride told me the other two failed because they didnt hold the needles closer to the 1K marker. It might also help to use a location with a Frasca setup which has unlimited use. l'd study the ATP written on my own or at least get familiar with it befor eshowing up. The computer testing and booklets there, can leave a lot to be desired, if you want a high score like in the 90's.
 
I was going to go to All ATP's to do mine. I found out they were doing a deal for 1000 bucks plus 400 to the examiner(at that specific location) to compete with another small flight school on the airport. I told the guy I wanted to do it and I would call the next week when my schedule for the following month came out. Called him the day I told him I would and he says, well the price went up to 1400+400 to the examiner. I was like WTF happened to the 1400 for the whole thing deal, got some bull ******************** response and told him I was no longer interested. He seemed offended. I feel like they were simply trying to take me for an additional 400 bucks.

There is a place in St. Louis that does a weekend course for 2100 bucks. Their airplanes dont look the greatest, but they are kept in great mechanical shape.
 
I used All ATP's in KTTN back in June 1999 to get my ATP. At the time I was flying mostly single pilot 135 in a PA-31 so I was very piston multi current. Showed up with my written done and just went with their profile/syllabus. In my group was a CFI/MEI and 2 USAF C-141 guys from McGuire.

The instructor we had was an ATP guy that went thru their program (0 to 200 hours/ratings). He had about 300tt at the time but knew his stuff and the program. 2 rides each and 2 "observer' rides in the Seminole and you were sent off to the DE for your ride. The ride was basically what we practiced on the 2 flights. The oral was a group oral and the questions were from the All ATP 20 page Seminole/ATP book.

Ride profile (june 1999)

1. Group oral
2. Preflight
3. Aborted T.O.
4. T.O. eng fail (simulated zero thrust) at rotation and climb out
5. Practice area for hood maneuvers (slow flight, steep turns, eng out securing)
6. single engine ILS to Rwy24 at KPNE to a single engine missed
7. single engine LOC to Ryw6 at KTTN to a stop and go (2 eng T.O. of course)
8. VOR A app. at KTTN to a circle to land/touch and go to a visual SE landing
End of ride about 1.0 flight. The ATP ride was almost exactly like the 135 PIC rides I did with the ABE FISDO.

Everything was pretty much canned and the same for all 4 of us. 3 of the 4 had civ comm/mel ratings. One of the mil guys had never touched a civ plane before and he needed an extra ride and recheck but other than that it was all "smooth in and out" via the ATP book.

Back then it was $975 cash out the door.
 
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trip said:
Regional F.O's get their ATP free at upgrade, why pay for it?
Click to expand...

I was at a regional for 6 years without an upgrade and left. Upgrades have pretty much been non-existent anywhere for the past couple of years. Been out of the cockpit for a while and now places such as Republic are requiring the ATP to get hired.
 
rjacobs said:
I found out they were doing a deal for 1000 bucks plus 400 to the examiner(at that specific location) to compete with another small flight school on the airport. Called him the day I told him I would and he says, well the price went up to 1400+400 to the examiner. I was like WTF happened to the 1400 for the whole thing deal, got some bull ******************** response and told him I was no longer interested. He seemed offended. I feel like they were simply trying to take me for an additional 400 bucks.
Click to expand...

Sounds like capitalism at its best! ALL ATP undercut the price to run it's competition out, then jacked up the price!
 
flythere said:
Sounds like capitalism at its best! ALL ATP undercut the price to run it's competition out, then jacked up the price!
Click to expand...

Well I agree they were trying to run their competition out. It just seeme that they were trying to pull a fast one on me since they knew I wanted to come do the rating there. screw that.
 
PA44Jockey said:
I was at a regional for 6 years without an upgrade and left. Upgrades have pretty much been non-existent anywhere for the past couple of years. Been out of the cockpit for a while and now places such as Republic are requiring the ATP to get hired.
Click to expand...


Are you trying to get hired by another regional? I figured 6 years would be enough. :beer:
 
Oh, It was enough. Unfortunately not being current for almost 2 years has lead me back to the right seat at another regional.
 
Just give good old Sheble aviation in Kingman AZ a call!
 
If the First Officers leave the regionals for the legacies while the Captains stay because they can't justify the move financially (or emotionally), the regionals will get extremely top-heavy. I wonder if that crossed management's minds.
 
There used to be a guy in Presque Isle, ME who would give you dual in his seminole in the morning. Take you out to lunch. Then give you your checkride in his seminole in the afternoon. Only problem was it's in Presque Isle, ME. Very gentlemanly ATP checkride. Was worth the trouble to travel up there. He was old though.
 
damnflyboy said:
If the First Officers leave the regionals for the legacies while the Captains stay because they can't justify the move financially (or emotionally), the regionals will get extremely top-heavy. I wonder if that crossed management's minds.
Click to expand...

Haha. Look at what happened to Comair.

KSwift said:
There used to be a guy in Presque Isle, ME who would give you dual in his seminole in the morning. Take you out to lunch. Then give you your checkride in his seminole in the afternoon. Only problem was it's in Presque Isle, ME. Very gentlemanly ATP checkride. Was worth the trouble to travel up there. He was old though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have talked to him several times and would love to use him, but he closes up shop for the winter (Presque Isle). Don't really blame him.
 
I used Action Multi Ratings in Groton, Ct. I did it in 1999 for $1100.00. I looked on the website. actionmultiratings.com and it is $2500.00. Including the examiner fee. Still uses the Senneca I. Was a good outfit then. Bet it still is.

ID PM me if you want any more info.
 
did comm multi and MEI w/ clyde fredrickson in mid 90's(very straight forward/great CFI). i think they do atp multi ride w/ examiner (used to be don scott) on site. at redbird dallas,tx (about 7 miles south of dallas love field). check it out...
 
I did my Comm ME and the CFI program down at Craig Field near Jax almost 9 years ago and it was a good experience for me. When I went thru they had a retired FAA inspector running their CFI program and he was excellent. It did really SUCK doing FOUR checkrides in the space of 3 weeks, but it was well worth it for what I paid.
 
I'm soon to be a 6th year regional FO. I bought the ATP without all ATPs. I suggest finding a solid CFI and a 250 rate multi. It's an easy checkride.

Yes, the airlines will Type you for free. But many FOs are competing for jobs domestically and overseas. Some people refuse a mediocrity seniority system.
 
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Did my ATP years ago through All-ATP's, already had the written done, self-study (personally, I wouldn't bother with the written-prep course, just get the big red book and dig in.) Had well over the 1500hr minimum, had lots of piston-multi time already. To me, the hard part, as it would be at any fixed-price "quickie" program, was trying to get comfortable and smooth in the PA-44 (or any other unfamiliar aircraft) in only a handful of practice hours. If I had been able to take the ride in the planes I was current in, (part 135, twin Cessna's), it would have been a cake-walk. That said, it can be done, simple enough for anybody used to the checkride routine; if a candidate wanted to really be sure of an easy pass, budgeting a few more flight hours for familiarization with the aircraft to be used would certainly help. To the OP, looks like you've had previous PA44 time, probably a non-issue.
 
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Many years ago I did my ATP with ATP JAX. Instructor was a complete a**hole. I stopped the checkride before he could. Spent another night and did it the next day with a different instructor. Subsequently passed and found out the reason the other instructor was such a dick was because he had a ATC golf tourney to make the day of my checkride. Never will forget that one.
 
ultrarunner said:
Can't you get the ATP when you're up for your next PC?
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In the past most part 121 companies wouldn't allow it. There has been rumor that current companies are going to be giving their current FOs an ATP on their next PC because of the new legislation, but I am not sure if any have actually done so yet.
 
If your looking to get back into flying and you have been out for a while or longer, then get you ATP. It will answer the question of scrutiny when asked by an interviewer, " So you havent flown 121/135 in a while. Tell us what you have been doing to prepare your- -self for this job" .... pause..I then say " I have my new ATP"
 
damnflyboy said:
If the First Officers leave the regionals for the legacies while the Captains stay because they can't justify the move financially (or emotionally), the regionals will get extremely top-heavy. I wonder if that crossed management's minds.
Click to expand...

Sounds like another bitter FO comment............Yawn.
 

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