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Regional for a career

  • Thread starter Thread starter BGSM
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I'm afraid it's not as clinical, easy a decision as you make it sound. I'm not busting your chops because a lot of what you say is true, but until you walk a mile in my shoes you'll never understand the process every Capt with 15 plus years has to go through. If I was single, I would be chasing a major as you suggest as I would have 18 years at a major. If others didn't mind commuting, they might. If they didn't mind being on reserve with Tuesdays and Wednsdays off they might jump ship. If you don't mind being on the bottom of a seniority list should something catastrophic happen to the economy, then they might go. That mortgage check is due if I have a job or not.
No disrespect meant, but you can't understand the balancing act that makes what you think to be a no brainer a complicated decision.
 
I'm afraid it's not as clinical, easy a decision as you make it sound. I'm not busting your chops because a lot of what you say is true, but until you walk a mile in my shoes you'll never understand the process every Capt with 15 plus years has to go through. If I was single, I would be chasing a major as you suggest as I would have 18 years at a major. If others didn't mind commuting, they might. If they didn't mind being on reserve with Tuesdays and Wednsdays off they might jump ship. If you don't mind being on the bottom of a seniority list should something catastrophic happen to the economy, then they might go. That mortgage check is due if I have a job or not.
No disrespect meant, but you can't understand the balancing act that makes what you think to be a no brainer a complicated decision.

And I purposely tried to generalize, not trying to pick on you Russ. Sure, everyone is unique, with unique circumstances. But, overall, even senior Capts should make the switch, but saving a bit prior is a must also. Nobody likes a pay cut, but a year or two of lower pay suddenly turns into many years of higher pay and better retirement.

Sure, there is ALWAYS a potential situation that could SCARE you into not doing anything. A natural disaster. A terrorist attack. But, since 9-11, the last major thing that caused legacy retraction and furloughs, a few things have changed the direction of this industry.

First, Consolidation. 8 big airlines turned into 4. Consolidation will create stronger airlines, less inclined to furlough pilots on a whim. Stronger airlines will grow to compete globally, helping everyone who works there.

Next, bag and change fees. Passengers seem to accept them now, and they weren't around pre Bk for most airlines. Those fees add billions in profits, paying down debt and other obligations. It also allows the legacies to make money to order new planes. You need new planes to compete globally.

Lastly, retirements. All 3 legacies will have to retire 5,000 each within the next 10 years. That means more upward movement than EVER. Each Widebody Capt that leaves creates lots of movement below, and DL for example loses around 800 pilots per year for 4 straight years coming up here, and then 650 the next year. About 4000 in 5 years to age 65. (2020-2024). If someone were to get on on in the next couple years, you would be set. Each year like the above, you would be able to jump up a couple plane types or sizes. With 141 retirements this year, DL is already having new bids every 45 days or so. What will it be like when 800 leave? Now think of that movement for 5 years in a row. The only thing stopping huge movement is a seat hold, and for a new hire it's one year for your initial assignment, and then two years for any AE, or advanced entitlement you WANT. It will probably be the same at AA and UAL. Not so much at SWA due to fewer overall retirements, and only one plane type.

So, things have changed a lot since the 9-11 downfall. High oil has killed the 50 seat market and Regionals are unlikely to get scope relief from stronger mainline pilot positions at the bargaining table. Higher profits mean fewer concessions. Mainline pilots instead are finally flying smaller mainline planes (DL717s, AA319s), replacing the RJs on many routes.

Things are changing for the better, and senior RJ pilots should consider change, save up some money, and take the plunge. Look at the 77 Mesaba flow ups. They are starting class or have started recently. Those guys were senior CR9 Capts, and I would think they are very happy with their situations, coming in at the very beginning of a BIG hiring wave. You guys have time, save some money and throw in those apps. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
I would disagree saying the 50 seat market is dead. It's not. Nothing like it was 10 years ago, but there's a viable market for them.
 
At one time the regionals were a viable back up, now they're a dead end.
 
I would disagree saying the 50 seat market is dead. It's not. Nothing like it was 10 years ago, but there's a viable market for them.

Not in SLC. Ed Bastian said in the conference call last week there won't be any "single class" RJs in SLC in a couple years , meaning unless someone plans to put a first class section in the -200, it's GONE. You probably fly the UAL side, but I have a feeling each Legacy CEO is planning to park almost all 50 seaters sooner than later. Gas is still way too high to justify the expense. Throw in a lack of pilots at most Regionals, and those 50s will be parked first so they can crew the 70/76 seaters. It's already happening Russ.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
One airport an airline does not make. You said the 50 seat market was dead, you now qualify the remark by city and airline.

We are losing routes of course, we are gaining some as well. Granted they are places most have never heard of, but the plane is still flying.
 
One airport an airline does not make. You said the 50 seat market was dead, you now qualify the remark by city and airline.

We are losing routes of course, we are gaining some as well. Granted they are places most have never heard of, but the plane is still flying.










Russ, apparently you don't realize that General Flea is always right...

Sooner or later he's bound to convince you and everyone else by repeating himself ad nauseam!!!:puke:
 
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Not in SLC. Ed Bastian said in the conference call last week there won't be any "single class" RJs in SLC in a couple years , meaning unless someone plans to put a first class section in the -200, it's GONE. You probably fly the UAL side, but I have a feeling each Legacy CEO is planning to park almost all 50 seaters sooner than later. Gas is still way too high to justify the expense. Throw in a lack of pilots at most Regionals, and those 50s will be parked first so they can crew the 70/76 seaters. It's already happening Russ.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Oh wise one, you forget about "pro rate". I bet you actually believe the E120 is dead too.
 
The wage gap between LCC/legacy and regional is only going to widen. During the 'lost decade' since 9/11, regionals have seen tremendous growth and RJ captains could touch a six figure salary. Now the shoe is on the other foot and by second year pay, most LCC/legacy FO's exceed senior RJ captain pay. There is little to no growth on the regional side. If you have more than ten years left and this business supports you and your family, making the jump or trying to is worthwhile. Who would want to do essentially the same job over decades for a million or two less in compensation?
 
Because I want to be at my kids games, recitals, be at home for Chistmas for the kids, home for New Years for me.

Yeah, it's worth that much to me to "sacrifice" and not make major airline wages. Then again, I haven't been wanting for a paycheck for 15 years while some of those at majors have.
 
The wage gap between LCC/legacy and regional is only going to widen.

Bet you two rounds (beverages) that you're wrong.

There WILL be a regional market in the future. The economics will always be there as long as there is customer demand for frequency over gauge in smaller markets.

Pilot pay in the cost-model is peanuts. The one thing that is certain is that if regionals/LCCs/etc, are going to keep pilots, they are going to need to close the pay gap - again.

The only thing I can foresee keeping some of the disparity is for the industry to make the case for lower mins (750 hours?). Even then, unless industry-wide compensation increases, intelligent prospects are going to pursue more stable and lucrative careers.
 
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One airport an airline does not make. You said the 50 seat market was dead, you now qualify the remark by city and airline.

We are losing routes of course, we are gaining some as well. Granted they are places most have never heard of, but the plane is still flying.

Russ,

Hey, listen to the analysts and airline CEOs. It's not getting any better for 50 seaters. Just bid to the 70/76 and hang on there if you need to. You guys are getting some E175s for UAL, try that. And one airport does make a very large hub for you. SLC is full of 50s now, but that will change. Throw in an app somewhere, you have the PIC.... Or.... Don't. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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Did you guys hear that Delta is getting 88 717's???

You've probably seen some in ATL and DTW already. More to come. Rumor has it a possible 717 category in NYC too. About 600 new Capt slots.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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